A Few Questions on Feeding Raw.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I have the most absolute desire to feed Raw, but the problem is we don't have
a) The money
b) the freezer space
I'm trying to convince my mom to buy a freezer though, we really need it anyways.
Questions:
What types of meat do you feed?
-How Much?
Is it cheaper than kibble?
Is it healthier?
-Prevent any health problems?
-Help teeth?
And any other information you want to provide me with .
Thanks for any and all help!

[finn's mom]

Do a search in here, there are TONS of threads, and, probably all your questions would be answered...as far as the difference it makes...I'll give you an example. My little RB dog, bruno, was about 12 or 13 when I changed him over cold turkey. I literally went from feeding him kibble to raw in one day. I fed him cubes of beef brisket and pureed veggies. I was nervous about feeding bones at that time (as in chicken) but, i let him chew on marrow bones and things like that, because he wasn't a voracious chewer and i wasn't worried about him breaking a tooth or breaking off pieces of bone that he'd swallow but couldn't digest (like pork or beef bones). He completely changed! He went from not being able to jump on the bed, barely able to walk fast, let alone run...he went from having bad breath, runny poop, throwing up daily, cloudy eyes, dry and dull fur...to being able to get up and down out of the bed and the car, he was running again, better breath, better teeth, solid poop, no puking, clear and bright eyes, shiny fur, it was amazing! And, he made nearly all of those obvious changes within a couple of days of raw feeding. Something drastic will have to happen to convince me that it isn't the right way to feed.

As for Finn, he has little to no body odor at all, never throws up, small amount of poop, almost always solid (unless i feed a lot of food without bone)...he has no bad breath, no plaque (the chicken bones clean his teeth as he eats it), his skin and coat look awesome. The main thing I notice with him compared to other dogs his age fed kibble, is the breath. He just doesn't have stinky breath.

As for what you're supposed to feed, it's something like 2 to 5% of the dog's weight. Depending on the activity level. And, a rule of thumb is to feed something at least as big as the dog's head so that they have to chew, instead of just gulping. Finn's a gulper, so, I have to do that. If your dog doesn't gulp, then you might not have to be so strict about the size of the food.

I don't find that it's any more expensive than feeding the quality dog food I'd choose to buy. I mean, yeah, it's cheaper to buy Ol' Roy or Kibbles and Bits or Pedigree, but, those aren't foods I'd buy if I were feeding kibble. I don't have a freezer, yet, and, I have a large dog. I just buy him a ten pound bag of chicken leg quarters and divide them into daily portions. Usually two leg quarters into one of those freezer/microwave/dishwasher safe disposable/reusable plastic containers (Ziploc and Glad both make them, as do others). I freeze several containers (a ten pound bag usually lasts Finn five to seven days), and, keep a couple out for the first couple days. I take one container out of the freezer at a time...empty a container that night, take one out of the freezer, etc. So, that gives each frozen portion a full day to thaw in the refrigerator. A freezer does allow you to buy in bulk, but, I've done it without one so far, you could probably manage. Especially with such little pups.

As for the types, chicken leg quarters are Finn's main source of food. I will buy beef brisket and cut it up every so often, usually giving him a piece of beef as one of his two daily meals every couple days. Just for variety. I rarely will give him boneless meat (whether it be pork or beef), twice a day, just because his poop tends to be too soft (because there's no bone). I will also sometimes buy pork loin chops and cut them off the bone, and, replace a leg quarter meal with a pork meal every couple days. He's eaten salmon before, and, I am planning to check out a butcher here in the next couple days. David also can get pretty much a neverending supply of deer meat, so, Finn will probably be getting that a lot, too. Hope he likes it, because it seems like it may be the cheapest way for us to go!

Like I said, type the word raw into the search engine within Pet Talk, and, read a lot. Also, what I did was to join several groups on yahoo...several groups that were pro-raw and several that were anti-raw. I didn't go into either with a strong opinion, yet, just joined to get both sides...I didn't argue with the anti-raw group, just listened. I obviously chose raw, but, don't do it if you're not sure it's right for you. You have to be comfortable with it! Good luck!

[wolfsoul]

I feed any type of meat I can get my hands on. The more variety, the better in my opinion. She gets the regular stuff like chicken, beef, lamb, and pork. But more often I will feed her the more "exotic" things like moose, elk, venison, duck, pheasant, goose, llama, rabbit, goat, etc.

How much you feed depends on the dog. There is a scale that most people go by, however much percentage of meat per whatever pounds of body weight, but I don't pay attention to that. I pay attention to my dog and what she needs. If she is getting thin, I feed her more. If she's getting fat (which never happens lol) I'd feed her less.

Whether it's cheaper depends on the type of diet you are feeding. I feed "prey model" which means that I feed a large amount of meat compared to bones. Most people feed a Raw Meaty Bone type diet, which usually consists of mainly chicken backs and necks and stuff like that for the main protein source. At the most, these will be 60/40 bone to meat ratio. Feeding a prey model diet is terribly expensive. I spend a few hundred dollars a month on Visa's food alone, especially since I buy her alot of other things to like fruits and veggies, yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, oils, etc. RMB style diets are definatly way cheaper than kibble. At the butcher I can buy a HUGE bag of chicken wings for two bucks. Even with the supplements, it's still cheaper than kibble. I prefer prey model, as I feel it's healthier and more natural, but RMB is still healthier than kibble in my opinion.

Visa's teeth have certainly been healthier since we've been doing raw. You ever notice how when a dog is done eating kibble, there is all that kibble stuck in his teeth? More and more bacteria builds up in the mouth over time and creates plaque and tartar. Raw meat does not get stuck in the teeth or create alot of plaque. That's why you are more likely to catch salmonella poisoning from a kibble-fed dog than a raw-fed dog. Plaque is just bacteria. Visa's teeth are sparkling white and her breath has never been better.

If your mom won't go for feeding both dogs raw, I'd atleast try and convince her to feed Lily raw. Small dogs really don't eat very much, it wouldn't be very expensive, and it should fit in your freezer.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Thanks for the advice!
Lily's not been eating her dog food anyways. She wants people food.. . So, she weighs 4 and a half pounds.. Do you have any estimate on how much of the meat and any price estimations on how much that would be for about a month? I just noticed her teeth are extremely bad, and she's only been on kibble since about 5 weeks old. Roxy needs it so much more than Lily though. Roxy loses weigh easily, and she practically looks like we starve her.. and her teeth, omg .

[bckrazy]

For Lily, I would recommend about 5% of her body weight, because she is still young. You want to decrease the amount based on her body weight/shape, and her age. 5% of 4.5 lbs equates to about .15-.2 lbs of raw per day. That is pennies a day!! Consider that, if you'll be feeding mostly chicken wings/leg quarters, those RMB's cost $0.50/lb on average... you can find it for more or for less depending on the butcher you go to. Some butchers will give away a huge (10 lb) bag of chicken pieces for a dollar or two.

Now, I'm guessing that Roxy weighs 30-40? lbs. She will need at least 3% of her body weight, preferably 5% since it sounds like she needs to pack on a few pounds. She should do well on 1.5 lbs per day, until her weight is ideal.

The cheapest RMB's that I get are whole chickens that I divide on my own (VERY cheap at our butcher, equates to about $.25/lb) OR a 10 lb bag of chicken leg quarters for $3 OR a little less than 10 lb bag of chicken wings for $3. A whole turkey and turkey wings/legs are just a bit more expensive, but bigger. A 5 lb package of beef ribs costs $2, lamb ribs of the same weight are just a bit more. Beef femur costs almost nothing, and can be split into 1/3 or 1/4 by the butcher, so that will provide 4 recreational chewing bones to clean teeth. Lamb shanks are also very cheap, as are pork bones/cuts.

I also feel that veggies help with a well-rounded diet. I spend about $2/month on each kind of veggie, and I use about 5 basic veggies which means $10 per month with that. If you just want to use a couple veggies, you can get them for cheaper. I buy a bag of Tomatoes, cuccumbers, broccolli, spinache, & carrots; puree them all together at home; then seperate the "veggie mush" into a about 10 sandwich bags, which means each dog will get 5 servings a month. It serves as a meal in itself. I give this once or twice a week, and mix in flax seed oil & a crushed multi-vitamin. Additives such as multi-vitamins, fish/salmon oil, flax seed, etc, is up to you. I also give them a few raw or hard-boiled eggs per week (including the shell), a few meals of oatmeal & honey per month, and a few meals of goats milk per month. I basically follow Dr. Ian Billinghurts RMB plan ;0) I reccomend the book "Give Your Dog A Bone"... you can actually borrow mine if you want. It has a lot of good, common sense information!

Also, the benefits of feeding raw are HUGE! And it is not rocket science, although plenty of research should be done before jumping into it. I keep ALL of my dogs' raw meals in one shelf in our freezer! And I even buy in bulk! It not only has a way of maintaining a perfect weight (which goes totally back & fourth with kibble, I know), it cleans teeth, produces poops that are firm, do not smell and actually crumble up in a couple days, promotes great coat, balanced energy (unlike the hyper, carb-driven energy from kibble), and will save you a LOT of money in the future. By the sound of your dogs' teeth, they will need professional teeth cleaning yearly, or they'll end up needing teeth pulled. This costs $100-200 per cleaning/pulling! It also sounds like the kibble that you feed Roxy is going right through her, which means she really does need a higher quality food or perhaps that she has an allergy, and raw will improve that.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I'm not exactly sure on Roxy's weight at the moment, but that sounds about right. I don't know if we have a butcher though.. o_O. We used to get our meat from the Grocery store (until I went Vegetarian).. Would they give us meat, maybe? I have a $10 budget a month for myself, and I say we normally spend.. $30 on Roxy's food, and since Lily eats hardly anything she gets a new jug of food for $10 about every 6 months. So, it does sound like this would be cheaper.. if only we had the freezer space.. Maybe I could start Roxy on just the bones and feed Lily the meat. I'd love to borrow the book if you don't mind lending it to me!

Yeah, her teeth are pretty bad, and Lily's are just getting started.. I feel like a horrible mom, but I've done everything under my control to try to get her on a better food, but my mom keeps insisting no.

[bckrazy]

Here are price estimations for feeding both of your dogs raw, based on RMB's that are less than $1 per lb. I have no clue what Roxy weighs, I'm guessing 30-40 lbs?

Feeding Lily for 30 days = 6 lbs = $4 per month

Feeding Roxy for 30 days = 30-45 lbs = $26 per month

So, that is $30 per month, and $360 per year, for a RMB diet. You can easily make $30 per month babysitting or whatever! =) And, it depends heavily on how much of a bargain hunter you are. That $30 could be cut in half, depending on your own local butchers and the deals you find.

[bckrazy]

Ok, just PM or e-mail me your address my e-mail is [email protected]

Have you tried brushing their teeth? Doggy toothpaste doesn't cost much at all, and just use an old toothbrush or buy 2 childrens brushes. It can help a lot if done daily. However, to get rid of the existing plaque, they either need a pricey cleaning from the vet (where they are put under anesthesia) or RMB's. Lily needs to get the meat and the bones, feeding her all muscle meat is not balanced & will not do much for her teeth. She is a small dog and as long as she chews well, she'd do fine with chicken & turkey bones.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Here are price estimations for feeding both of your dogs raw, based on RMB's that are less than $1 per lb. I have no clue what Roxy weighs, I'm guessing 30-40 lbs?

Feeding Lily for 30 days = 6 lbs = $4 per month

Feeding Roxy for 30 days = 30-45 lbs = $26 per month

So, that is $30 per month, and $360 per year, for a RMB diet. You can easily make $30 per month babysitting or whatever! =) And, it depends heavily on how much of a bargain hunter you are. That $30 could be cut in half, depending on your own local butchers and the deals you find.

Wow, I just asked my mom and she said on Roxy's food alone we spend $40 a month. Now I just need to get a job or something, hehe. Do you have any idea of what kind of weekly schedule type thing I could do for them? Like.. a meal chart or something. I'm still a little bit clueless on WHAT exactly I'd feed them .

ETA: I could start brushing their teeth.. I'll have that PM in just a sec..I really need to do something.. Roxy's teeth will be gone by the time she's 6 if I don't start doing something.

[bckrazy]

HM... check out the thread in Dog Health, What Did Your Dogs Eat Today?. It can give you an idea if you look through all of Sarah's posts in a week (she posts the most in that thread ). My schedule for Gonzo is usually something like (for a 40 lb active dog)...

Monday: 2 Chicken wings for breakfast, .3 lb beef brisket meat for dinner
Tuesday: Lamb shank for breakfast, beef rib for dinner
Wednsday: Chicken leg quarter for breakfast, veggie mush for dinner
Thursday: 2 Chicken wings for breakfast, chicken leg quarter for dinner
ETC!

They get supplements almost every day, but that is up to you. I occasionally give them some yogurt, milk, cottage cheese, etc. I almost never give starchy biscuits & such, except one cookie before they go to bed. I use tiny bits of cheese, cooked chicken, liver, and pieces of carrot for training treats. The book explains basically everything you would want to know... and more! hehe. Grocery store meat is fine, as long as it isn't over-priced! A common rule of thumb is, for your main meats, don't ever pay more than $1/lb. I occasionally pay a bit more for special treats, like rabbit. His Farmore raw costs $2/lb, but that includes veggies and supps in it, and I feed it much less often. If your grocery store has no good deals, check out a different grocery store (Costco can be a God-send sometimes) or local butchers.

I recommend, next time you got to the store, ask the butcher for a beef femur bone cut in 1/4ths or a pack of soup bones (really, really cheap). Give it to Roxy to chew on, and watch her. Just rec bones regularly will help a lot, and prove to your Mom that it will improve her teeth.

[buttercup132]

This seems so much cheaper and healither. My parents feed my two UGH pedigree I told my mom about raw food and she seems interested!! I feed them veggies some times but have to mix in cheese cause they dont like veggies lol

[Roxyluvsme13]

On a Raw Diet, do your dogs even need to be vaccinated?

[wolfsoul]

On a Raw Diet, do your dogs even need to be vaccinated?

Even on kibble, dogs don't really need to be vaccinated -- atleast not every year or every three years. But, with raw, a dog will have a higher immune system, so the chances of them getting anything are less.

You don't need to feed veggies at all. I don't feed alot of fruit/veggie, myself, I only do to add more vitamins and nutrients (and alot of fruits or veggies are beneficial in other ways, like cranberries prevent UTIs and reduce plaque, etc). In the wild, dogs don't eat veggies. The stomach contents are bitter and so they are shaken out (they are sometimes ingested when the smaller animals are eaten as the stomach is small enough to eat whole). Wolves are only seen eating berries when other food sources are low. So in general, all that is eaten is meat, organs, and about 10% bone.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Even on kibble, dogs don't really need to be vaccinated -- atleast not every year or every three years. But, with raw, a dog will have a higher immune system, so the chances of them getting anything are less.

You don't need to feed veggies at all. I don't feed alot of fruit/veggie, myself, I only do to add more vitamins and nutrients (and alot of fruits or veggies are beneficial in other ways, like cranberries prevent UTIs and reduce plaque, etc). In the wild, dogs don't eat veggies. The stomach contents are bitter and so they are shaken out (they are sometimes ingested when the smaller animals are eaten as the stomach is small enough to eat whole). Wolves are only seen eating berries when other food sources are low. So in general, all that is eaten is meat, organs, and about 10% bone.

Okay. Roxy only gets her Rabies Vaccine because it's required, and Lily's only getting shots, because my mom wants her to?
Okay, so that means I can feed them the 14.4 and the 1.44 ounces of meat like the site said. The site said to feed Veggies, but I'd rather prefer not to. We don't have a blender or anything, and I'm sure they'd enjoy the meat much better.
Ah, BARF and Raw are 2 different things >__<. I like Raw better ^^

[bckrazy]

I would feed Roxy over 1 lb daily, because she does need to put on extra weight. ;0) Other than that, it sounds good. I agree with Jordan, they reallly don't need that much veggies in their diet. It's good to get a veggie meal once or week or so, but not as 1/3 of their intake.

I feed 60% RMB, 30% muscle meat & organs, and 10% fruits, veggies, supps, dairy, etc.