I feel evil

[cali]

dawn for that method ypu have to keep in mind both the dog and where the person lives, for example I cant just isolate my dogs outside because its -40*C thats is flippen cold way to cold to be tossing the dog out and leaving them, my friend american eskimo has to come inside in the winters because its too cold for his super thick coat. you also have to keep in mind the dog, for example, I cannot isolate misty say in the bathroom, because she will quite litterally break down the door(she has done it) you also must keep in mind the house layout, for example I have a very wide open layout in the house, its a complete ring with no doors If I leave her she will follow nothing I can do about that, I put her in her crate for time out however she loves her crate so that is not punnishment either, it is a great methode it just relies on the assumption that everyone have lots of doors, nice wheather, and a calm dog.

[Linda York]

There has been ALOT of great advice given here. I think that petlover feft bad for what she did, vowed to never do it again, AND she has apologized.
All of our opinions have made a point. It sounds like petlover acted out of anger and fear. And relalized that she was wrong. I was always taught not to hit a dog with my hands. Because they will become fearfull of "hands". You can't hit a dog with the same hand that you pet them with. If you hit them with your hand, they will not know the differance when you extend that same hand to pet them. I was told to use a lightly rolled newspaper if it was needed. Just to "SAWT" or "TAP" not CLOBBER". Dogs will not like the sound. Eventually all one would have to do is shake the paper, no more swatting. The dog gets the message, and are not afraid of hands. I had never heard of the "time out" training, I'm going to try it. Thanks.

[Dawn]

Sorry Cali, I understand you're predicament-I just have to ask if there is some other way? Have you tried speaking with a professional trainer for advice?
Hitting is so-well...
I get the dog fight thing with the JRT-They are out of control - and can cause major damage- but the other things...
well-good luck-

[cali]

misty is gennerally a good dog she just counter surfs way to much, and has a tenency to start fights(well right now anyway, she is in season and has "doggie PMS" lol) I am acually a member of a dog club that specializes in positive reinforcment, so that is how most of our dogs are trained its only misty thats the problem, and there is no way I can leave her alone right now(in standing season) like I dont hit her hard just a slap on the shoulder hard enugh for her to get the message, she is a tough dog, my mom is a professinal trainer, well she has boxes of ribbons and trophies for obedience, in which she trained the dogs. I would take her to barbra loyd, but we just cant afford it right now, she worked wonders on happy though!

[Dawn]

Oh, well every training method is different-doesn't make them wrong-just different, and we all don't have to agree with those methods. Every dog is different too - some respond better to some types of methods than others-Tyr responded best to soft spoken, no hit training.
He had 2 different trainers as a pup, one I left because I thought she was too rough and he did not respond well to her. he was a very timid pup. (you wouldn't know that now) Our second trainer was a man, which he responds better to anyway, and he believed in "soft handed" training. He never raised his voice, was against choke collars, and didn't even need treats most of the time. He was wonderful. Tyr did really well in his class, and i learned alot from him.
His biggest suggestion was-always work with what your dog loves, and take that away when they are bad. It could be a toy, treat, belly rubs, long walks whatever makes them happy is the best rewards. Taking away your presence is the worst possible punishment. Walk away-go in another room or just leave the house for awhile.
Just suggestions. Like I said -what ever works for the individual and your dog-we don't all have to agree.

[carole]

I just wanted to say I am really pleased to see how well this thread has been handled, I have seen many similar ones end up quite differently, it would appear we have all learned not to pre-judge too harshly this time and when someone makes this kind of statement, to offer advice, and support , rather than to scold, WELL DONE PT.

Our pets are like children and therefore they need discipline too.I Feel this person acted out in fustration and fear, which is often how parents react towards their children in certain circumstances I am certain from what she has said it was a one off and will never ever happen again, and that is what really counts, we all make mistakes, its whether we learn from them or not.

[Twisterdog]

You can't hit a dog with the same hand that you pet them with. If you hit them with your hand, they will not know the differance when you extend that same hand to pet them. I was told to use a lightly rolled newspaper if it was needed.

Well, that's a bit of an exagaration. Now, if someone beats their dog all the time, sure, the dog is not going to understand, and is going to be afraid of that person. However, someone who slaps, taps, swats - whatever you want to call it - their dog once or twice is not going to instantly ruin the dog forever, and have it be forever afraid to be petted.

Also, I have not heard of any modern trainers that advocate the "rolled up newspaper" theory anymore. I could be wrong, but I think that is quite outdated.

I dont know what is it with you people and jumping to concusions honestly if anyone here says that they have never ever lashed out on there dog at least once in their lives they are lying. plain and simple. things happen, sometimes you have to do what you have to do

Cali ... lightning is going to strike ... we AGREE on something!

I get the dog fight thing with the JRT-They are out of control - and can cause major damage- but the other things...

You know, Dawn, I'm pretty offended by that statement. Do you own a Parson Russell terrier? Ever owned one? Sorry, but they are not all "out of control". Not at all. A well bred Parson Russell terrier is energetic, hardworking and alert ... but not "out of control" by any means. We don't know Cali's dogs, maybe she does have to kick a fight apart. I have two Parson Russells, among six terriers total, and I've never had a problem with the PRT's fighting at all. I really hate breed generalizations. Not all Parson Russells are out of control, not all pit bulls are mean, not all border collies are hyper, not all chihuahuas are ankle biters, not all German shepherds are sneaky. Right? Breedism hurts us all. We are all in the dog world together.

[cali]

twister I agree, not all parsons are out of control however perky is a JACK russle not a parson, and she came from unknown background, she is definatly NOT out of control! she is a cat she sleeps on the back of the couch and causes the least trouble of the 6, well happy causes the least trouble but perky is right next to her, I have however met several person russle terriers that fight hard, but they are so light that they can be seperated by picking them up by the scruff, a JACK however is heavier, has short legs and a long back, they have strong very well muscled bodys making it near impossable to just pick then up, at least for a small person like me, also a jack russles stomach is so well muscled that they hardly feel anything when being kicked off the other dog, they just slid and continue on with there life, but by no means are they out of control, misty(border collie) starts way more fights then perky she is just tall and light easier to get off the other dog. but that does not mean she is out of control, it just means that misty herself is a nasty little devil

[luckies4me]

Jack Russell Terriers and Parson Russell Terriers are the same thing. Their name was recently changed to Parson instead of Jack.

[Marie410]

I just want to jump in on the discipline thing. Like I said in another post my two dogs have very different personalities. Reebok is very sensitive and simply raising my voice and speaking very firmly is enough to make him give me a slightly shamed look that shows me he understands. Sampson, on the other hand is a bit of a bonehead I will tap him on the butt and then hold his head in my hands and speak very firmly. It seems to work.
And I swear these dogs trained me, not the other way around. Sampson is the only dog I have ever "spanked" (trust me, it's a tap, anything more would hurt me a hell of lot more than him). Reebok is the most intelligent dog I have ever owned. He is incredibly sesnistive to emotion and does not require a lot of discipline. I think we have to be tuned to our dogs, they sure have no problem tuning themselves to us.

As far as losing temper with a dog...the closest I ever came was when my first adult dog (my first dog as an adult) Sheena, nipped me a little too hard when were rough housing. I didn't slap her but I came close, it was my first reaction and I came soooo close. Instead I grabbed her collar and pushed her away, a little too roughly. She knew I was mad and I don't think she knew why. I felt awful, awful, awful I still do. I miss her sooooo much

[micki76]

Originally posted by luckies4me
Jack Russell Terriers and Parson Russell Terriers are the same thing. Their name was recently changed to Parson instead of Jack.

No they’re not. Cali’s description is exactly correct. They have been divided into two different breeds.

Parson Russells have longer legs and are generally have a slighter build. The Jack Russell Terrier is the shorter, stockier version.

[cali]

luckies they are not the same thing, parson russles are the show type with long legs thin, shortish bodys jack russles are the working type, long body short legs, and well muscled body. the name was only changed to seperate the show type from the working type.

[cali]

ya beat me to it micki! lol

[luckies4me]

Huh I remember reading on the AKC site that they changed Jack Russels to Parson Russells after the guy who developed the breed............guess I was wrong.

[luckies4me]

This is what is says on the AKC site:

"The Parson Russell Terrier is bold and friendly, athletic and clever. At home he is playful, exuberant and overwhelmingly affectionate. He is an independent and energetic terrier and requires his due portion of attention.

The Parson Russell is a member of the Terrier Group and was first recognized by the AKC in 1997. For a breeder referral click here.

*Note: The name of the Jack Russell Terrier was changed to the Parson Russell Terrier effective April 1, 2003 as requested by the Jack Russell Terrier Association of America, which was changed to the Parson Russell Terrier Association of America."

So by reading this it would seem they are one in the same.