Trick or treat

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'm currently paying nearly $650 in COBRA monthly and I STILL wouldn't want socialized care....even if I had to live in my car and pay only my COBRA!! Until you've been there, just like with ANYTHING ELSE, you really don't completely get the severity.

Have you ever been covered in a country with what you call socialized medicine. If not, how can you know what it is like?

And I am sorry I did not get your sarcasm. It was just that a number of the things you stated as "facts" were incorrect. So I assumed you hadn't done much research.

[shais_mom]

I just want to get more involved and educate myself more on the canditates really.

good for you and I mean that sincerely - and it is heartfelt.
if it sounds snide or sarcastic in anyway please accept my apology b/c that isn't my intent. I wish I would have paid more attention when I was younger.
((hugs))

[sparks19]

Have you ever been covered in a country with what you call socialized medicine. If not, how can you know what it is like?

.

I have

I know you weren't asking me.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I have

I know you weren't asking me.

Quite alright Sparky. I know you did not like the experience. And we have heard from Randi in Denmark who finds it a good experience. But

Until you've been there

how can you know it is terrible?

[jennielynn1970]

I think it's all in how it's run, and which government is running it. I had no issues with it in Sweden, and they treated me amazingly. The families and friends I had there had no complaints either.


We complained about the price of alcohol, lol. And that you couldn't get much of anything in that department that wasn't Swedish. You had to go on the party boats between Sweden and Denmark to get foreign alcohol, and bring it back home with you. Fun, fun!!

Again, Sweden is a small country, as is Denmark. I don't know how it would work in the states, but I think if they took the models that are used, the ones that work well, it can be achieved.

[blue]

Since Sweden has been brought up at least once...

Ive been enjoying a tobbaco product of theirs for the last week or more. Its called Snus, its tobbaco pouches you put under your lip. Good stuff and helps keep me from smoking without the nastiness of chewing tobbaco.

[NoahsMommy]

Jen_Librarian,
I'm sorry I didn't read through your question correctly. I think this thread has my BP up and I have low BP, normally!!

My response would not have been nearly as perfect as Jazzcat's:

I agree with Kelly and Richard on a lot of this. I guess I finally understand all those celebrities who claimed they would move out of the country if Bush won. Well I'm feeling that way now about Obama. I've heard Costa Rica is nice.

I think Obama has shown a history of associating with questionable people and that shows a big flaw in his judgment. I need to know that my president has good judgment in all things, including character. I'd hate to see the positions of cabinet seats, supreme court justices and top aides being filled with the likes of Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko and William Ayers. It goes on to a bigger scale, what does that mean about his associations outside the US? Who is he willing to "sit down" with (i.e. Ahmadinejad)? My brain and my "gut" tell me to run away from Obama.

I believe you can make excuses (truly valid ones) about a lot of things, but we CHOOSE who we spend our free time with. While open-mindedness is a good thing, associating with people that are dangerous or affiliated with danger/hate/evil will NEVER have a valid reason. We know a whole lot about the people we associate ourselves with...
**AGAIN, IMO. **

Sara,
Talk to Nommilyn or Slick about their healthcare system. While geographically similar in size, but not exactly in population. Slick has to PAY for a supplement just to get into a Doctor WHEN SHE WANTS and for TESTS THAT SHE NORMALLY HAS TO WAIT FOR. Have YOU ever had an HMO? I don't have to try drugs to know they're bad for me....or go to a quack doctor to know its not a good idea.

You've had experience with American bureaucracy, have you seen many well-run, consumer/people-benefiting government agencies that actually DO what they're supposed to do? When ones health is at stake....you have NOTHING else without it.

I also never stated my examples as FACT, If I did, I'm sorry. I get my information from a large combination of magazines, online blogs/articles/newspapers, paper newspapers, radio and television - MUCH comes DIRECTLY from the candidates mouths. Such as: yesterday Obama SAID that he wants to make sure some waitress can pay her rent (because she's barely making her rent) while talking to "Joe (Samuel) the Plumber". He said, that if the people like this waitress had more money (from the GOVERNMENT, ie: your EXTRA tax dollars), she'd be able to thrive. What happened to MAKING YOUR OWN LIVING?? WORKING HARD??? BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR ONES SELF??? (I'm not yelling, just emphasizing. )

Do you make $250,000 (profit) per year? (DONT answer this one.) If you did, would you want your money going to people that refuse to get a better job and lease on life? People that just want to stay where they are, griping about how they don't make enough, but FAILING to DO ANYTHING about it?? NOT ME! If I start making that much, I would be HORRIFIED if MY money that I worked my butt off for was taken from me just so some lazy person can go get a new car this year - that they cannot afford. NO WAY!

SIGNS: My parents donated (along with many people in our areas - both Rep and Dem) money to the Republican Party and were given McCain/Palin signs and buttons. I would imagine they'd give them to you free if you asked to support that way. If someone took this from my parents front lawn, there'd be hell to pay. You don't mess with people's stuff...free or paid for. ESPECIALLY a neighbor regarding politics. I DO see the humor, this isn't my point, its that you've offended a neighbor (you said he got mad) that you have to live with for a long time. If he didn't get mad, it'd be different.

[RICHARD]

I believe you can make excuses (truly valid ones) about a lot of things, but we CHOOSE who we spend our free time with. While open-mindedness is a good thing, associating with people that are dangerous or affiliated with danger/hate/evil will NEVER have a valid reason. We know a whole lot about the people we associate ourselves with...
**AGAIN, IMO. **

.

The thing that really turns me off is the "I was only 8 years old when Ayers was bombing shiat up" or his "That's not true" when confronted with the fact that he was in Ayers house to launch his 'career'. THe rev Wright problem? "I never heard him say anything about the U.S." Or, his ability to purchase a home with the help of Rezko.

I'd give him a break and would have considered voting for him-until he started to dodge the questions that came out of his associations-Why not man-up and get the doubt out into the open? Notice that all his buddies have gone to ground because they don't want to be held accountable for what they have said or done.

From Wiki-on the pub of his memoirs-
Much of the controversy about Ayers during the decade since 2000 stems from an interview he gave to The New York Times on the occasion of the memoir's publication.The reporter quoted him as saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough", and, when asked if he would "do it all again," as saying "I don't want to discount the possibility." Ayers has not denied the quotes, but he protested the interviewer's characterizations in a Letter to the Editor published September 15, 2001: "This is not a question of being misunderstood or 'taken out of context', but of deliberate distortion"[/B]

LOLOL,
If I was BO I would have taken steps to make sure that the Ayers question would have never come up again. Of course, like any radical idiot, they become part of the 'system' that they plotted against for so long. THey found out that blowing themselves up and robbing banks put them in jail, where they were useless to their cause. That's the funniest part about old radical hippies- they sell out, but to keep their ideal, they clean up, take a bath and play it cool while they dream of taking down the same 'man' that they mirror so shamelessly.

All BO had to do was address the idiots that he was connected to. Just come out and say something contrite like "WA was a radical bomber in the 60's, I did have a connection with him and did launch my poli career at his home, I wasn't well versed in his background at the time and regret that there has been this kind of coverage in the media about that association"

No, Instead he acts like a lying school kid that was part of the window breaking spree at the local elementary school. "Well, It wasn't me.""I didn't know they were breaking windows until afterwards' "I didn't hear/see anything''

IT's a patently dishonest little sidestep and people are tagged as haters or racists when they push the issue.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sara,
Talk to Nommilyn or Slick about their healthcare system. While geographically similar in size, but not exactly in population. Slick has to PAY for a supplement just to get into a Doctor WHEN SHE WANTS and for TESTS THAT SHE NORMALLY HAS TO WAIT FOR. Have YOU ever had an HMO? I don't have to try drugs to know they're bad for me....or go to a quack doctor to know its not a good idea.

You've had experience with American bureaucracy, have you seen many well-run, consumer/people-benefiting government agencies that actually DO what they're supposed to do? When ones health is at stake....you have NOTHING else without it.

I do have experience with Healthcare right here. If you want a PPO rather than an HMO...so you can see a doctor of your choice -- you pay more. The very same thing as Slick has to do. I fail to see the difference.

Kelly, have you ever been down on your luck and had to collect unemployment insurance? If so, you're welcome. My taxes pay for that. And I will not call you any of the names you have plastered on others who accept assistance from the government.

I don't like to see anyone -- especially children -- who cannot get medical care because of our system.

I think I can safely guarantee I pay more taxes than you do. Of course I do not enjoy paying them. But I consider it the price I pay to live in what I hope is a civilized society.

I have been fortunate in the parents to whom I was born, the education I receive, my ability to use my talents to make a good living. I do not take those things for granted.

But I do recognize not everyone has had the same advantages. And I have compassion for those who are less fortunate -- who have a more difficult time in life.

If some of the money I earn goes to helping them have adequate medical care -- I am okay with that.

[sparks19]

I think it's all in how it's run, and which government is running it. I had no issues with it in Sweden, and they treated me amazingly. The families and friends I had there had no complaints either.


We complained about the price of alcohol, lol. And that you couldn't get much of anything in that department that wasn't Swedish. You had to go on the party boats between Sweden and Denmark to get foreign alcohol, and bring it back home with you. Fun, fun!!

Again, Sweden is a small country, as is Denmark. I don't know how it would work in the states, but I think if they took the models that are used, the ones that work well, it can be achieved.

I hear ya on that one.

Back home a case of beer was over $40 :O and is supposedly going up to $50 last I heard.

[Puckstop31]

The health care thing.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

The most telling quote, IMHO.

"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

Well, DUH.

Now, what do we think happens when this happens on a national scale?

I understand a need for a better way to cover more people. Whatever that answer is, it is NOT the government doing it.

[NoahsMommy]

Oh jeesh! You know very well what I mean....

Again, please take what I say with your knowledge of ME!

Sara, I love you to no end, but please, read what I write with some context in mind. I don't have time to argue each and every comment I make, although I stand by them.

I strictly stated that this was regarding people that CHOOSE to only work part-time and CHOOSE to rely on the government for the rest of whatever they owe, want or are responsible for. We ALL know these people. Also the people that complain they only make a certain amount of money, but don't TRY to get another p/t job or educate/train themselves to better their situation - WITH government help is FINE with me!!! I agree that we ALL need help now and then, but don't take $$ from people who've earned it the hard way to give to people that EXPECT IT.

I hope that's clear.

[NoahsMommy]

I understand a need for a better way to cover more people. Whatever that answer is, it is NOT the government doing it.

AGREED!!

I agree that EVERYONE deserves care and treatment - 500%!!! If you cannot afford it, there are programs, if they aren't in place, they SHOULD BE!

[beeniesmom]

Quite alright Sparky. I know you did not like the experience. And we have heard from Randi in Denmark who finds it a good experience. But how can you know it is terrible?

I experienced socialized healthcare in Italy, for 13 years of my life and it was a good experience. Never did me or my family ever spend sleepless nights thinking about how we were going to pay for drs. appointments and surgeries and general care, until we moved to the States. I love it here but the healthcare system is messed up. I really don't understand why people are afraid of it here. If organized correctly it can be a great thing, for everyone.
The only ones who should fear it are the insurance companies.

[sparks19]

I experienced socialized healthcare in Italy, for 13 years of my life and it was a good experience. Never did me or my family ever spend sleepless nights thinking about how we were going to pay for drs. appointments and surgeries and general care, until we moved to the States. I love it here but the healthcare system is messed up. I really don't understand why people are afraid of it here. If organized correctly it can be a great thing, for everyone.
The only ones who should fear it are the insurance companies.

that's a big if lol. I think that's why it doesn't work in Ontario (at least not for me or just about anyone I know... which isn't exactly a large part of the population lol). It has been so mismanaged and they have to keep cutting funding and cutting funding and that means less dr's, less nurses and A LOT less beds.

a friend of mine just had a baby and she was almost two weeks over due and she was supposed to be induced. The date of her induction she went in and they said "Oh sorry all our beds are full. come back tomorrow" so she went back the next day and they were still full so they told her to go home and they would call her when they were ready. 4 days after her original induction date she finally got in. Not ONE hospital in London had ONE bed open? they told her that if she went in to labor she would have to go to another town 45 minutes away and hope that they had beds. I'm not exaggerating this.

So... seeing how badly the system CAN be mismanaged with a population no where CLOSE to the US... and seeing how bad the government has screwed up just about every other program. I don't have a lot of faith that it will be organized correctly.