Groups Opposed ToThe Greyhound Racing Industry

[rockingship]

Greyhound racing is different things to different people. For me, personally, it was never simply "about the money"....though it was gratifying to be paid for something I would have done for free if I could have afforded to.

The industry that has evolved around greyhound racing is certainly about money.....and the only reason that greyhound racing exists in its traditional incarnation, is because the various localities have sought it out, and have actuated it, by public sanction, to raise public monies.

As far as the racing breed is concerned, racing and the monies that it generates, are the only thing preserving the genetic wellsprings of the racing greyhound. If one understands anything at all about selective breeding, and the expenses intrinsic to it, then it is not necessary for me to expound upon why this is so crucial to an entire population of racing greyhounds, and whatever future populations are to emerge.

It always puzzles me how one can feel so strongly connected and concerned about a single racing greyhound, yet be seemingly oblivious to the racing population, and the current and long term prospects, and the well being and integrity of the breed. These need not be mutually exclusive concerns----and they had better not be, if we are to perpetuate the breed in the future, as functional, genetically sound and physically and dispositionally well-adapted.

For the time being, greyhound racing is the device which preserves and nurtures-----and supports-----the vast and diverse familial structures and genetic reserviors of the racing greyhound. In the unthinkable event that these are ever lost, they are lost forever.

Humane concerns for racing greyhounds go hand in hand with the concept of "breed" and breed custodianship....breed custodainship encompasses not simply procreation of racing greyhounds, but procreation of functional, genetically diverse and well-adapted members of the population. There is no breed in the world which can compare to the racing greyhound in that regard.....and it is racing that has enabled the breed to flourish, and kept its genetic reserviors pure and full. While it is an imperfect system, it's the best one we have devised so far.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by wolfie
That's wonderful that you all care about your dogs, their health, ect... but really isn't greyhound racing all about money and winning? If you just wanted your dogs to have fun you could do lure coursing (for fun... and for their whole life). I have never made $1 off my dogs, but they are my family. I keep them their whole lives because I love them. If owners really cared about them they would keep their dogs.

Then only aquire new dogs if you can care for them. If there were less greyhounds in need of a home, then those people who would adopt greyhounds might get a dog from the pound instead. And save some of those millions of innocent lives that get euthanized at the pounds every year.

I'm sorry but you can't be a 'responsible owner' if you dump your dog off at rescue after his career, and add to the huge dog overpopulation.

I'm done with this thread.

Greyhound racing isn't "all about money and winning" anymore than dog shows are just about winning. Racing is the only thing that sustains the greyhound as a viable breed. AKC greyhound breeders have had shows and coursing for decades and manage to produce less than 200 grotesquely inbred examples per year.

The fact that there is a little money to be made in racing is why racing greyhounds are the best-bred dogs on earth. There is an incentive to preserve the breed, even make it better, because there is a performance standard to be met rather than just one of appearance.

At first I think many people adopted greyhounds out of pity thanks to all the AR propaganda. I did. Then a curious thing happened---people fell in love with the breed. I can't tell you how many times I hear people say, "I'll never have anything but a greyhound from now on." They're becoming savvy about racing and bloodlines. Some are pre-adopting dogs---making arrangements with breeders to adopt dogs after their racing careers are over. More new adopters discover the breed every day---I don't think the majority feel like they have a dog someone "dumped." They wanted an adult, purebred, trained dog and they got one.

If you're worried about overbreeding you should direct your ire at people who purposely breed mixes without regard to the results. At counties and municipalities who don't require breeding licenses for people with unneutered animals. At people who "dump" pets at kill shelters.

In a nation of 300,000,000 people we need to find just 3,000 more, 1 ten-thousandth of a percent of the population, who will learn to love this breed and we will have achieved what no other breed can say it has---full adoption. It's going to happen.

[wolfie]

Originally posted by jcsperson
If you're worried about overbreeding you should direct your ire at people who purposely breed mixes without regard to the results. At counties and municipalities who don't require breeding licenses for people with unneutered animals. At people who "dump" pets at kill shelters.

Yes, these people are all involved in adding to the problem of dog overpopulation, and homeless dogs. But so are breeders, and so are people who relinquish their dogs to rescues. If you think others should care more about dog overpopulation, why don't you set a good example?

I like this:
http://www.shilohproject.org/Lettertobreeders.htm

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by wolfie
Yes, these people are all involved in adding to the problem of dog overpopulation, and homeless dogs. But so are breeders, and so are people who relinquish their dogs to rescues. If you think others should care more about dog overpopulation, why don't you set a good example?

I like this:
http://www.shilohproject.org/Lettertobreeders.htm

I read the article; it makes some good points, but misses the mark on breed custodianship. Though she said she had "researched it," the author lacks a clear understanding of all that entails.

Did you read the statistics she provided?

7-8% come from commercial breeders, many of which are filthy and cruel puppy mills that contribute the sickliest dogs to the population.

If 7-8% of the total population is created by breeders, and a significant portion of those are "puppy mills," then perhaps 5% of dogs are bred by legitimate breeders. Their contribution to the problem, using her own figures, is miniscule.

Besides, these are the dogs we want. There are breeds well worth preserving and the dedicated people who raise them are the custodians of the destiny of those breeds. That is an awesome responsibility and one not taken lightly.

BTW, there are no "backyard" or "puppy mill" greyhound breeders. They are far too expensive and demanding to raise and train to be bred on the cheap by amateurs. They aren't raised to a cute puppy age and sold quickly with little invested, but to 18 months by which time they have consumed vast amounts of food and had great numbers of hours of individualized training by professional trainers. A track-ready dog costs $3500 to $50,000 dollars. You can't mass produce that or do it cheaply.

Look, I love dogs. I love my brother's Bullmastiffs. I love my neighbor's crazy Jack Russell. I love my other neighbor's sweet, sweet Basset Hound. I pet everyone's dogs, purebred or mixed, we meet on our walks. I understand the desire to want to save them all, but making greyhound racing or AKC purebreds the whipping boy for pet overpopulation is seriously misplaced.

We're looking for more homes for 3,000 dogs who will be adopted by people who want a greyhound, not another purebred or a mix. That's my mission---it's just that simple.

[wolfie]

Gary Patronek, show breeders contribute about 1.8 million puppies to the U.S. dog population each year. He estimates that that is about 29% of all the new dogs born in the U.S., a much larger percentage than I had thought.

and if you add up the other totals she gave and subtract it from 100%, you get 29% again.

[jcsperson]

The argument still makes no sense. Essentially, she argues that responsible breeders should cut back because irresponsible people won't.

She has misplaced the blame. What happened to personal responsibility? If a breeder is doing things right why should he or she have to cut back because others are irresponsible? To me that does nothing more than penalize the people who are part of the solution---some of whom might have a family business in the raising and selling of dogs as guide, police, military, drug interdiction, search and rescue, tracking and yes, race dogs.

I'm getting just a little sick of people telling me that somebody else will have a little more if I have a little less, especially if those who have a little less are not my doing. Blaming greyhound racing for all the dogs that get put down in shelters is an argument that makes no sense whatsoever.

[aly]

Originally posted by jcsperson


If one owns dozens of dogs this is not practical. There are thousands of people, however, who want them. When they adopt a greyhound they get a trained, purebred dog with a wonderful temperament and a documented ancestry. Some folks are "pre-adopting" dogs from breeders and get to follow the dog's career at the track. Many breeders remain in touch with the adopters of their dogs. My breeder friend has her office bulletin board covered with pet pics of the dogs she bred, trained and raced. Most people don't hear things like this because ARA groups focus only on the most sensationalistic stories.

Greyhound breedings have trended down over the past several years and adoptions are way up. The two will intersect at full adoption in the forseeable future, perhaps as early as 2007.

Its just too bad that since these dogs are bred SO much and so many need to go up for adoption, that they are taking homes away from other shelter dogs on death row.

(I'm in a hurry and haven't read all the posts so sorry if someone has already said this)

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by aly
Its just too bad that since these dogs are bred SO much and so many need to go up for adoption, that they are taking homes away from other shelter dogs on death row.

For the last time, it is not greyhound racing's fault there are other purebreds and mixed breeds in shelters.

And do I have to point out, yet again, that the trend in greyhound breeding is down. If racing greyhounds were bred under the auspices of the AKC, they wouldn't nearly be among the most popular breeds.

2001

1 Labrador retrievers. 165,970
2 Golden retrievers. 62,497
3 German shepherds. 51,625
4 Dachshunds. 50,478
5 Beagles. 50,419
6 Yorkshire terriers. 42,025
7 Poodles. 40,550
8 Boxers. 37,035
9 Chihuahuas. 36,627
10 Shih Tzus. 33,240

http://www.petplace.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=4618

Greyhounds don't even come close to making the top 10 at 26,797. Additionally, there are a large number of the more popular breeds that are bred without "papers" where there are very few greyhounds that are unregistered.

So who gets the blame for overbreeding? Greyhounds, of course.

[aly]

Originally posted by jcsperson
For the last time, it is not greyhound racing's fault there are other purebreds and mixed breeds in shelters.

No it isn't their fault. But they are mass-produced for racing. I'm not sure of the numbers bred compared to the numbers of Labs bred, but I'd imagine it is overwhelming. Sorry again if I brought up a point that has already been discussed. I'll be back later today!

[dukedogsmom]

Other purebreds and mixed breeds for the main part, weren't victims of someone's greed by making money off them. Then, when they can no longer produce that money, are thrown away and added to the already strained rescue groups. Owning an animal is for life, not until they can no longer race, show, whatever. I don't see how some of you can come here and try to defend yourselves when you're part of the problem. So, why don't you start enjoying yourself here at PT and start commenting on other people's pets instead of just this one part. That would make it much more enjoyable for everyone.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by aly
No it isn't their fault. But they are mass-produced for racing. I'm not sure of the numbers bred compared to the numbers of Labs bred, but I'd imagine it is overwhelming. Sorry again if I brought up a point that has already been discussed. I'll be back later today!

See my post above. It's not even close. Registered AKC Labs outnumber NGA and AKC greyhounds combined by more than 6 to 1. My guess is that the difference in the number of Labs without papers and the number of greyhounds unregistered is even greater.

Greyhounds are not "mass-produced." Greyhounds are bred for a specific business. They cannot be "overbred" because they are subject to the supply and demand requirements of the racing business. There are only so many tracks and so many kennels. Breeders who overbreed risk raising cost and labor-intensive dogs with no place to send them. Few people outside of the racing business can appreciate the time, expense and labor of raising a fully-trained dog to 18 months of age rather than 8 weeks of age for quick sale as a pet.

Nobody is going to pay $3500 for a race-ready 18 month-old greyhound as a pet. Nobody is going to risk raising puppies to 18 months of age when their investment is $3500 if there is little likelihood that that money will be recouped, either by selling the dog or from earnings at the track. There has not been a track closing or opening in several years and not coincidentally, there has been remarkable stability in the number of breedings over the same period. Supply and demand---anybody who stayed awake during Econ 101 understands that.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by dukedogsmom
Other purebreds and mixed breeds for the main part, weren't victims of someone's greed by making money off them. Then, when they can no longer produce that money, are thrown away and added to the already strained rescue groups. Owning an animal is for life, not until they can no longer race, show, whatever. I don't see how some of you can come here and try to defend yourselves when you're part of the problem. So, why don't you start enjoying yourself here at PT and start commenting on other people's pets instead of just this one part. That would make it much more enjoyable for everyone.

I see the folks who were "sick of it" and making "my last post on this topic" seem willing to jump back in with an opinion. Welcome back.

I'm sorry, but greed has little to do with it. This is an expensive hobby for me---I'm losing money at it and I love it just the same. Just like people who have show dogs spend tens of thousands of dollars on dogs and RVs, I've spent a lot of money on greyhounds. They are my passion. I watched them whelp. I've picked them up and kissed them when they were seconds old. Whether my dogs or someone else's, I always whisper, "You will win the Hollywood World Classic" in their tiny ears after I kiss them. I figure if I kiss enough puppies I'm sure to be right eventually. I visit my pups every chance I get even though the farm is 2 hours away. I watch every race I can on Rosnet.

In the summer when I have lots of time off, I visit the track in FL and watch them race. I couldn't be more proud if these were my kids playing in the championship game. I love the look of utter contentment they have on their faces when they walk off the track whether they win or lose. That means more to me than the couple hundred bucks they might have won. These are running dogs. They are never happier than when they are running.

Don't lecture me about greed. If it were about money I obviously wouldn't be doing it. It's about something far more important than that---something you couldn't possibly fathom unless you spent 30 seconds in my shoes watching them run.

[7up]

I figure if I kiss enough puppies I'm sure to be right eventually.

You've been reading too many fairy tales Martin.

Jay

[lizbud]

Groups opposed to Greyhound Racing continued,


http://www.gcnm.org/


http://www.lcanimal.org/cmpgn/cmpgn_011.htm

Article from Dog Fancy "Born to run or bred to die"

http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/about/body_king.html

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by 7up
You've been reading too many fairy tales Martin.

The good news is I get to play with puppies whether one wins the World Classic or not.