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Thread: America the Beautiful? (Controversial!)

  1. #31
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    Another interesting article

    Bush: Global warming is just hot air
    The planet's getting hotter, ecosystems are going haywire, government scientists know it -- and still the president denies there's a problem. Guess which industry continues to fuel his campaign?

    - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By Katharine Mieszkowski



    Sept. 10, 2004 | Don't expect President Bush to discuss global warming -- the world's most serious environmental problem -- on the campaign trail in the next eight weeks. The former oilman from Texas doesn't dare alienate his friends in the fossil fuel and auto industries, prime purveyors of global warming. Bush still refuses to admit that burning Chevron with Techron in our Jeep Grand Cherokees, not to mention megatons of coal in our power plants, has brought us 19 of the 20 hottest years on record since 1980.

    "You're talking about a president who says that the jury is out on evolution, so what possible evidence would you need to muster to prove the existence of global warming?" says Robert F. Kennedy Jr., author of the new book "Crimes Against Nature." "We've got polar ice caps melting, glaciers disappearing all over the world, ocean levels rising, coral reefs dying. But these people are flat-earthers."

    In fact, Bush's see-no-evil, hear-no-evil stance on global warming is so intractable that even when his own administration's scientists weigh in on the issue, he simply won't hear of it.

    In a report sent to Congress at the end of August, government scientists argued that the warming of the atmosphere in recent decades cannot be explained by natural causes but must include such human sources as energy consumption and deforestation. It's a conclusion that a consensus of the world's climatologists reached years ago but that Bush has ignored throughout his presidency.

    When the New York Times quizzed Bush about why his scientists had shifted their positions on what caused global warming, he appeared entirely ignorant that they had. "I don't think we did," he said. When tipped off to the paper's coverage of the report, he added: "Oh, OK, well, that's got to be true." Maybe he really doesn't read the newspapers. His aides then assured reporters that, no, this report wouldn't signal any change in his policies around climate change.

    In other words, Bush will continue to delay regulatory action related to global warming, while pledging to invest in more study of the issue in the name of "sound science," before doing anything about it.

    "The Bush administration has been playing whack-a-mole trying to beat back its own scientists on global warming; every once in a while they miss one," says Jeremy Symons, who worked at the Environmental Protection Agency in 2001, when the president reneged on his campaign promise to regulate global-warming pollution -- a move, Symons says, done for "no reason other than to appease polluters."

    "The strength of the science is overwhelming and it's reflected in this new report," adds Symons, now climate change program manager for the National Wildlife Federation. "It doesn't leave the administration anywhere to hide about the fact that it's not doing anything. The science hasn't changed, but when it comes to policy the Bush administration still has its head in the sand."

    It's a repeat of a situation early in Bush's presidency, when he asked the National Academy of Sciences to look into global warming and they found that it is happening and is likely caused by such human activities as burning fossil fuels. The response? The administration just continued to call for further study and even infamously censored mentions of the harmful impact of global warming from a federal environmental report.

    "Since the first time President Bush has marginally said global warming could be real, he has delayed, denied or tried to derail any advancements to address it," says Betsy Loyless, vice president for policy for the League of Conservation Voters, which has endorsed John Kerry for president in 2004.

    The Bush administration has refused to allow climate experts to even participate in climate policy discussions, asserts Rosina Bierbaum, a former director of the White House science office. Rather than consult with its own scientific advisors when devising a strategy on climate change, the White House constructed a plan primarily from conversations with the National Economic Counsel.

    "I wasn't asked anything," says Bierbaum, now dean of the University of Michigan's School of Natural Resources and Environment. "In fact, I was told to stop sending weekly science updates to the White House, as had been the tradition with the previous administration."

    Now that Bush is seeking reelection, he's certainly not going to bring up global warming, which he's done so little about. "Bush is not mentioning it because it goes against the major interest of his supporters," says Ross Gelbspan, author of a new book on global warming called "Boiling Point," which calls for buying out coal miners to speed the transition from CO2-intensive coal to electricity made from renewable sources. "Bush has given the reins of our climate and energy policies to the coal and oil industries completely."

    Oil and gas companies have contributed more than $2 million to Bush's reelection effort, making him the largest recipient of the industry's campaign dollars, according to the Center for Responsive Politics; and the coal industry has given his reelection effort more than $200,000, making the president that industry's biggest beneficiary too.

    When you dig into Bush's reelection campaign, you find that he euphemistically refers to global warming as "climate change," and that his 2005 budget includes nearly $2 billion for scientific research "focused on reducing significant uncertainties in climate science."

    "His response to everything is we still need more study," adds Kennedy. "You're never going to get a scientist to say there is an absolute certainty that this consequence is going to happen. You're standing on a railroad track and a train is coming. A scientist is not going to say that there is a complete 100 percent certainty that that train is going to hit you, but it's still a good idea to get off the track."

    When Bush does address climate change, he brags about his programs "Healthy Forests" and "Clear Skies," chipper names that mask what they actually do. The programs allow companies to voluntarily reduce greenhouse gas intensity, not overall greenhouse gas emissions.

    That means that as the economy grows, the ratio of greenhouse gas emissions to economic output should not grow as quickly. Yet that phenomenon is already happening on its own; as the economy becomes more service-oriented, it's naturally becoming less CO2-intensive. According to the Government Accountability Office, emission intensity was already projected to drop 14 percent between 2002 and 2012.

    "The core of the Bush policy was a voluntary goal of reducing emissions 'intensity' by 18 percent by 2012," says Aimee Christensen, executive director of Environment 2004, a political action group. So what the policy really calls for -- but does not require -- is a mere 4 percent reduction in intensity. What's lost in the discussion about "emissions intensity," says Christensen, is that actual greenhouse gas emissions will increase 12 percent.

    Compare that to the targets set by the Kyoto Protocol, which would have mandated that by 2012 the U.S. return to emission levels 7 percent below those of 1990, or the McCain/Lieberman Climate Stewardship Act, which asked that the U.S. return to year 2000 levels of emissions. Both those plans would result in actual reductions, not just intensity reductions. The Bush administration walked away from the first proposal on the international stage and opposed the second here at home.

    "Clearly, if the White House took a different position, the McCain-Lieberman plan would have had a good shot," says Symons. "If President Bush put half as much energy into doing something about global warming as he does to opposing the efforts in Congress, we may actually have gotten something done."

    While the U.S. rests on its voluntary plan for just slightly reducing the growth rate of its global warming emissions, it continues to account for more than 20 percent of the man-made greenhouse gases produced in the world. "It didn't take 9/11 and the war on Iraq to begin to make the United States the pariah in international circles," says Randy Hayes, founder of the Rainforest Action Network and director of sustainability for Oakland, Calif. "Bush's fight against the Kyoto Protocol, and the U.S. opposing setting firm targets and timelines for the reduction of greenhouse gases, did that."

    Further evidence that the voluntary Bush program is not doing much of anything can be found in how few companies participate in its much ballyhooed Climate Leaders program. Fifty-six companies got involved, with fewer than half of those agreeing to set targets to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. "The bottom line is, in the absence of a mandatory program you're not going to have the kind of participation you need," says Vicki Arroyo, director of policy analysis for the PEW Center on Global Climate Change.

    After all, why should companies participate if they don't have to? "With this voluntary framework, it just creates so little incentive for people to do anything, even if you have a good program in place to help them do the right thing," says Christensen.

    And then there's Bush's Climate VISION program, which allows industry sectors to set their own voluntary emissions intensity reduction targets. Not surprisingly, the industry associations set very modest goals for themselves. For instance, the electric power industry pledged to reduce carbon intensity by 3 to 5 percent within the decade, while complaining that this would be "very difficult" to accomplish.

    With his ideological opposition to forcing industry to do anything, Bush has focused on funding research initiatives into new technologies that could help CO2-intensive industries emit less carbon in the future -- the far future. For instance, he's trumpeting his investment in a demonstration power plant, which would capture and sequester the CO2 emissions under the ground. But concerns about catastrophic CO2 leaks and possible aquifer contamination have left some unconvinced. "Certainly, the verdict is not in on coal sequestration, and until it is, we're highly skeptical of that," says Dave Hamilton, director of global warming and energy programs for the Sierra Club. Gelbspan is more direct. "Carbon sequestration is a huge misuse of money that could be put into renewable energy," he says. "This would be a boondoggle for Halliburton and Bechtel. If you simply use that money to put up wind farms, you'd be doing the right thing."

    Some environmental groups favor government investment in research to try to make carbon sequestration work -- but not without corresponding mandatory limits on C02 emissions. "We're not going to support them in a separate fashion because that's a way to get swindled," says David G. Hawkins, director of the Natural Resources Defense Council's climate center. So even if carbon sequestration does show promise, subsidizing its research and development without also forcing the coal industry to emit less C02 amounts to a giveaway to a polluting industry.

    Bush has adopted the same new-technology-is-our-savior approach with the auto industry, funding research into hydrogen fuel-cell cars, while only marginally raising the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards that regulate how many miles per gallon cars on the road must get. He's hyped the promise of hydrogen fuel-cell cars, which would emit nothing but water from the tailpipe.

    But despite his campaign's claim that such cars would "emit no air pollutants or greenhouse gases," using hydrogen could actually end up creating a lot of CO2 emissions, according to Joseph Romm, the author of "The Hype About Hydrogen: Fact and Fiction in the Race to Save the Climate," who was in charge of clean energy in the Department of Energy in the Clinton administration. That's because the hydrogen has to be derived from somewhere and today 95 percent of hydrogen in the U.S. comes from natural gas -- a fossil fuel. And since hydrogen is such a diffuse gas it would take a lot of energy to compress or deliver it. Even those who continue to be more optimistic about getting hydrogen from renewable sources in the future don't see them on the road in large numbers for decades.

    While Bush bets on new technologies saving us from global warming, the atmosphere continues to heat up. "Climate scientists are divided on whether or not there is global warming the same way that Americans are divided about whether or not Ralph Nader should be president," says Eban Goodstein, an economics professor at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore., who is founder of the Green House Network, a nonprofit working to stop global warming. Which is to say, they're not divided at all. "And without presidential leadership and given the hold that anti-government Republicans have, especially in the House, nothing will happen."

    With the topic largely off the table in the presidential reelection bid, the nation loses not only more time, but an important chance for the president to educate the public about the biggest environmental threat to the country today.

    "Global climate change is going to require a global solution," says Nigel Purvis, an environmental scholar at the Brookings Institution. "The president is a very important player on the issue of climate change. The power of the office to educate the American people does matter." But apparently not in the office of this president.

  2. #32
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    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    If Bush wanted to help his oil buddies he would have opened ANWAR to keep them busy...

    Why send us all across the planet to 'colonize' oil producing nations???

    Bush playing whack-a-mole.......great visual.....


    Soledad,

    Your slip is showing....it would be far more productive (economical) for Bush to OK drilling here in the states....wouldn't it???

    Why lose 10 zillion dollars taking over Iraq for oil when we can stay at home and drill to our little capitalist heart's content?

    Or do we need to make sure that the enviros have gas for their cars so they can go and protest?

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Lizzie,

    While I am a casual Star Trek fan, the Borg is..

    The Borg are an immensely powerful race of humanoids from the Delta Quadrant. Stregnthened with cybernetic implants, Borg awareness is as a collective. Individual thought is considered primal and should be "assimilated" into the collective. Each borg is part of a giant subspace communications network, called the Borg Collective.

    The borg is a huge clot of humanoids that can't think on their own.

    Sorta like sports fans....


    ---------------------------------------------
    whack a mole!!!!


    http://www.upchucky.com/flash-games-whack.html

    ------------------------------------------------


    And why the animosity about Kool-Aid???

    I make my own.....that way I don't get sick.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all -
    Together we stand
    Divided we fall.

    I laugh, therefore? I am.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  3. #33
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    Richard. Only knowing you through reading your posts, I would say that it is you, and people like you, who are one of the reasons that hundreds of millions of people are losing respect for America and what it stands for. How sad, especially as you are not representative of any American I have ever met in Europe or through the Internet. You should be ashamed (if you know what that means). You are doing your country a great disservice. But apparently you don't care. Anything for a laugh at others expense, I suppose.

    Your posts are incoherent, your arguments are irrational and rarely have factual basis, you seem mostly to be motivated by hatred. Have you no tolerance or respect for other people at all? You may think that this is all very funny, but I can assure you it isn't for the rest of the world (and about half of America). Ranting and raving is exactly what we DON'T need in such serious situations.

    Why do your posts have to be so often full of intolerance and contempt?

    "Peace cannot be achieved through violence,
    it can only be attained through understanding."
    Albert Einstein

  4. #34
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    Yes Richard I have been totally blown away by your comments, now mate you know I have the utmost respect for you, and I like to consider us friends, but mate you are way out of line in this thread, just MO.

    No-one should be so defensive here, the facts are the facts, we can go on comparing our country with another, but whatever excuses we come up with,it does not change the problem, we all need to work together on this, and make the changes needed to ensure a better future for the next generation.

    Putting people down, being sarcastic, because they dare to criticise your administration, just seems rather immature to me,I am not proud of everything my country stands for or does, and I would be the first person to say so.

    Jonza has not made this an anti-american thread, by any means, he has made valid points, and just because he is British, there is no need for name calling, he is stating facts, and backing up his comments as I see it.

    I vaguely remember a summit being held some time back, where our country and others and of course America were involved, and America would not agree to participate, our country did and others, and it was to do with pollution and the enviroment, I cannot for the life of me remember the details, but if anyone can shed light on it for me, great.
    Furangels only lent.
    RIP my gorgeous Sooti, taken from us far too young, we miss your beautiful face and purssonality,take care of Ash for us, love you xx000❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Ash,your pawprints are forever in my heart, love and miss you so much my big boy. ❤️❤️

    RIP my sweet gorgeous girl Ellie-Mae, a little battler to the end, you will never ever be forgotten, your little soul is forever in my heart, my thoughts, my memories, my love for you will never die, Love you my darling little precious girl.❤️❤️

    RIP our sweet Nikita taken suddenly ,way too soon ,you were a special girl we loved you so much ,miss you ❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Lexie, 15 years of unconditional love you gave us, we loved you so much, and miss you more than words can say.❤️❤️

    RIP beautiful Evee Ray Skye ,my life will never be the same with out you ,I loved you so much, I will never forget you ,miss you my darling .❤️❤️

  5. #35
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    Kyoto, Carole.

  6. #36
    Kyoto would have hamstrung the US while doing nothing about third world polluters like China. The brown clouds blowing across the pacific could continue unimpeded, but the US would have had to severely cut industrial activity to comply with the treaty.

    Just a little piece of trivia......


    Did the state of massachusetts have more acres of undeveloped forest in 1800 or the year 2000?


    the answer is the year 2000

  7. #37
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    Thanks for putting me in the picture.
    Furangels only lent.
    RIP my gorgeous Sooti, taken from us far too young, we miss your beautiful face and purssonality,take care of Ash for us, love you xx000❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Ash,your pawprints are forever in my heart, love and miss you so much my big boy. ❤️❤️

    RIP my sweet gorgeous girl Ellie-Mae, a little battler to the end, you will never ever be forgotten, your little soul is forever in my heart, my thoughts, my memories, my love for you will never die, Love you my darling little precious girl.❤️❤️

    RIP our sweet Nikita taken suddenly ,way too soon ,you were a special girl we loved you so much ,miss you ❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Lexie, 15 years of unconditional love you gave us, we loved you so much, and miss you more than words can say.❤️❤️

    RIP beautiful Evee Ray Skye ,my life will never be the same with out you ,I loved you so much, I will never forget you ,miss you my darling .❤️❤️

  8. #38
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    Hi there! Ladie's Human- please if you can explain Kyoto to me and others who may not be familiar? Thanks!

  9. #39
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    Carole,

    I seem to have missed the thread where I called someone a name.

    Could you please copy and post that?

    My comment about him being British was directed at the people I have met from GB and how nice and polite they were.

    Someone else seemed to think I called them a liar and asked them to post the reply where I did.

    I will be more than happy to apologize for being outlandish.

    I expect someone else to do the same.

    People talk trash all the time on these threads and when they are called out on a statement they make they can't back it up...


    Just like the Assault Weapons comments...someone says that a citizen here cannot purchase a weapon that our military uses and them said my comments were BS...

    I expect that people would cry foul when they make statements out of the blue and then I mock them.....

    A funny story always deserves a good laugh.

    I apologize to you if I seem to much of a cowboy.

    Cowboys always seem to ride to the rescue when the fit hits the shan.

    We await the global response to help the people who were hit by the hurricanes in Florida.

  10. #40
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    Originally posted by RICHARD
    ...
    We await the global response to help the people who were hit by the hurricanes in Florida.
    I'm sure America's allies and global aid agencies will offer aid. It's hard for countries to offer (and the sufferer to accept) specific monetary or physical aid until the disaster has passed. I think you're being a bit too cynical there.

    If that's the case, where is America's offer of aid for the bombing of the Australian Embassy in Jakarta last week? Our current government has always been quick to jump to Bush's aid but nothing has been forthcoming so far.
    Nicole, Mini, Jasmine, Pickles, Tabasco, Schnaggles and Buffy

  11. #41
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    Way off topic but I just had to say that I love the Borgs! They're one of my favorite things about Star Trek.

    9/3/13
    I did the right thing by setting you free
    But the pain is very deep.
    If only I could turn back time, forever, you I'd keep.
    I miss you


    I hear you whimper in your sleep
    I gently pet you and say, no bad dreams
    It will be alright, to my dog as dark as night.

    Fur as dark as the night.
    Join me on this flight.
    Paws of love that follow me.
    In my heart you'll forever be.
    [/SIZE]



    How I wish I could hold you near.
    Turn back time to make it so.
    Hug you close and never let go.
    11/12/06




  12. #42
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    Richard I never mentioned your name, when I said name calling, perhaps that was the wrong choice of words, plain darn rudeness would be more appropriate and it was NOT you I was referring to OK, that thread appears to have been deleted, still I stand by what I have said regarding your comments on this thread., but I am not about to get into a hissy fight over it, that just is not my style.

    IMO Jonza has backed up alot of what he had been saying, and he has been around on this planet a lot longer than you and I, and therefore he has, had I believe more experience than either of us, and seen many changes in his life-time, that has to be respected.
    Last edited by carole; 09-12-2004 at 08:40 PM.
    Furangels only lent.
    RIP my gorgeous Sooti, taken from us far too young, we miss your beautiful face and purssonality,take care of Ash for us, love you xx000❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Ash,your pawprints are forever in my heart, love and miss you so much my big boy. ❤️❤️

    RIP my sweet gorgeous girl Ellie-Mae, a little battler to the end, you will never ever be forgotten, your little soul is forever in my heart, my thoughts, my memories, my love for you will never die, Love you my darling little precious girl.❤️❤️

    RIP our sweet Nikita taken suddenly ,way too soon ,you were a special girl we loved you so much ,miss you ❤️❤️

    RIP my beautiful Lexie, 15 years of unconditional love you gave us, we loved you so much, and miss you more than words can say.❤️❤️

    RIP beautiful Evee Ray Skye ,my life will never be the same with out you ,I loved you so much, I will never forget you ,miss you my darling .❤️❤️

  13. #43
    The Kyoto protocals would have limited the CO2 output of a given INDUSTRIALIZED nation in proportion to their output in 1994, eventually forcing the country to return to that level. Notice, industrialized nations only. Also, it limited CO2 output, not total emissions. China as an "emerging nation" would not have been limited by the treaty, while Russia would have been limited.

  14. #44
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    Originally posted by dukedogsmom
    Way off topic but I just had to say that I love the Borgs! They're one of my favorite things about Star Trek.
    Picard does too.


    Kinda.


    Miss Meow.,


    http://www.usembassyjakarta.org/pres..._kuningan.html

    We are a tad slow......
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all -
    Together we stand
    Divided we fall.

    I laugh, therefore? I am.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  15. #45
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    For the record.

    Freedom of speech is exactly that. Freedom of speech.

    It does not end when you put the period at the end of the sentence.

    I think that allows people to reply to an issue in any way they choose- It's a two way street.

    I just find it rather funny that someone would offer up an article with "Bush the destroyer" in the first paragraph the word "controversial" in the thread title, without expecting a response.


    Quoting articles is a wonderful way to exchange information and for making your opinions known, It's more honest when you use your own words and let it all hang out.

    That way you know exactly where a person stands and what they mean when they say it. I may have jerked a few chains and will continue to do so....I am merely using my FOS.

    I have always invited people to 'mock back' at me, it is their right-
    I can take it.

    I am sticking to my guns about my comments. And I reserve the right, just as most of you do, to comment on others.

    Freedom of speech and expression is just a buch of vowels and consonants-unless you are willing to believe in it-good, bad and indifferent.

    It's amazing how fast FOS loses it's meaning when someone opposes or makes light of your opinion.

    Then it's time to shut a perSon down!
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all -
    Together we stand
    Divided we fall.

    I laugh, therefore? I am.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

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