Fahrenheit 911 - For those who've seen it

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Some of the people in America DO NOT HAVE THE STOMACH for the war we are in....BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, the same people who oppose the war will be running around criticizing the government when we get a dirty bomb blown up in our back yard....

Yes, you are correct, if that happened, I would TOTALLY be criticizing the government. And no, I do not have the stomach for this war, or any war.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
Yes, you are correct, if that happened, I would TOTALLY be criticizing the government. And no, I do not have the stomach for this war, or any war.

Chew thoroughly before you swallow.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
To return to the subject....would you use the word visceral to describe the woman in the film who verbally assaults the sobbing mother of a recently killed soldier and and a protester?

And if only big cities are targets....what was the deal with that small Virginia town?

I can't spell vieceral, vicereal, vieceral?

What do you want me to say about that?

Some people are real a-holes.

What is the deal with small Virginia towns?
I never said terrorists were smart.

My dad always told me to start small, practice and perfect your strategy....

I wonder if Osama taught his minions the same lessons?



Liz,

one more time!

Does watching a bootleg copy count???

Had we gone into Saudi Arabia the same arguements would be brought up... We did it for the oil, we dropped napalm and chem weapons on innocents-

Osama's family has summarily disowned him.

You know, they should have kept the bin Ladens here in the United States.....left them to deal with all the morons, some of which decided that the poor Sikhs, who wore a turban as part of their
culture, were to blame for 9/11.

1,000 deaths for our side....

Do we get a toaster for reaching that number??

I'll state the obvious again...

58,000 men didn't come back from the Viet Nam war.
You probably don't remember the nightly news tote board........Killed in Action, Wounded and Missing...We should count our blessings that it's ONLY 857.

No, I don't want to put myself in Lila's shoes.
I feel that grieving is a personal thing. I also happen to feel that people are basically proud when their kids join the service...I would have a problem with it if my kid went to war and got killed, but I would never allow someone to profit with my grief..

I some how missed the Michael Moore War Fund, you know, the one that pays for a few kids of dead soldiers college funds.

No, I don't want to read MM's web site, He's misstated facts before, why change now?...some outside sources would be nice.

About the memos that OBL was going to strike in the United States......

Where can I find the memo that says 19 Saudis were going to hijack planes on 9/11??


I didn't vote for GWB, I do happen to thing that GWB's cabinet is filled with misfits and not so desirable people.

I do think that GWB is taking way too much vacation...think of this....I have 400 hours in my vacation account....who deserves it more, me or him???? (don't patronize me, either )

I find GWB's position on stem cell and abortion to be wrong....and I really don't like him calling upon his god to guide his hand.

I do find his wife to be kinda attractive, sometimes. His daughters are real cute-I think it's the drinking and wildness that turn me on...
But hey, that's just me and my perverse fantasies!!


Overall,
I give him a 'c' grade.

I really don't give a flying s--- about the president. He's what we get stuck with for four years-his audition is almost over. My concern is the mean effing attitudes that the political 'sides' have spawned in the last 20 years. It used to be wink, wink, nudge, nudge..now it's blackmail, mudslinging and bringing up who slept with who.

Since the general public is so beguiled with all that info, I guess things won't change soon.

I do care about my country, I do care about the people who live here with me, I do care about the civility that we should be treating each other with, something that we lost in between JFK's death and using chemical weapons on Iraqi women and children.

Oh wait a second.......BESIDES MICHAEL MOORE MAKING THAT STATEMENT....show me where we did!

We supported OBL in the 80's.....TRUTH

Our track record in Foreign Policy ain't the greatest....TRUTH

Had Al "numbn-ts" Gore won Tennessee, his home state, we wouldn't be having this conversation....
TRUTH.

I only watch Fox news for Jaime Colby, Rita Crosby and Linda Vester-eye candy!!!Claudia Cowan is a puppethead.....TRUTH!!

---------------------------

Why would you criticize the government for a dirty bomb????

What steps would you take to keep a terrorist from lighting one off in your backyard???

----------------------------

And here's my best John McEnroe imitation.....



ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!

[Soledad]

I think the hardest parts for me to watch were the scenes where the old Iraqi woman called to God asking where he was and the part where Lila talked about how her flesh ached for her son. I don't know why her phrasing it that way did me in, but it did. Footage of the Iraqi children getting medical care with no anesthetic was also gutwrenching.

It was also so hard to watch the soldiers. Even the ones who were pumped up. They're so young and they're there doing what they're told and doing it the best they can. It breaks your heart to think it's all in vain.

Also, I was very impressed by the way MM did not use video footage of 9-11. By using only the audio he avoided criticism of exploiting the event and made it even more powerful than you thought it could have been.

[RICHARD]

Moore probably didn't have the money to purchase the film clips for the film.

Audio is infinitely cheaper.


And I'd like to clarify a few points.


I do care about the office of the president.

The guys in the office are human and make mistakes- Marilyn, Monica, Iran-Contra, Watergate and so on. I have a lower tolerance for them when my elected officials lie to me.

Moore spends the first part of the movie going over the 2000 elections and how they were stolen.

GET OVER IT! I voted for the loser too!

Instead of chanting it like a mantra for three and a half years, we could have moved forward

Maybe we can get Mr Peabody, Sherman and the Way-Back Machine to go back and change a few votes.


And while we are at it let's change John Kerry's vote to go to war....Heaven help us! A war monger in the White House...

If he pick Dame Clinton to run with him that will make two votes for war.

A bit of trivia for you, Only TWO sitting Senators have ever been elected as Prez.

Soledad,
Let's put this into perspective-

Saddam built palaces instead of hospitals.
Jerked Kuwait around.
Gassed the Kurds
Let his sons run amuck
Jerked the UN inspectors around.

Who's to blame?

You'd think the leader of a country would at least WANT to take care of his people.

Nope, instead MM tries to move us to tears by tossing in some blood and gore, No, not AL...
Do you know what I thought when I saw that?

Maybe, because of this war for oil and land,
those people won't have to worry about influenza, diptheria, tetanus, measles and all that other funky stuff that happens when your leader decides to line his pockets, instead of taking care of you...

My heart bleeds for them too, but I am still looking forward, Hoping that someday there will be hospitals, anesthesia, doctors and nurses for these people....and while we are at it, let's toss in a school or two, a college and a university.

You are a smart gal......
It may have been the war that we should not have gotten into, but is it too late to try and make things right???? By them, and for us???

Brand me an optimist and a romantic....
And while you are at it, call me crazy.

---------------------------------------

Lila Lipscomb was talking to Debbie Norville
last night.

The one thing I find to be a real phenomena is when people take their grieving to the airways.
There are thousands of "family spokemen" that have lost their jobs because of this.

Now when I see a person championing a cause I wonder if they have their TiVo or VCR running.

I have become immune.

It's Lila's war now.

She can go ahead and make the rounds, until we find the next Dead-Soldier's-Mom-du-Jour.

Thank god Andy Warhol only gave people 15 minutes..I really hate to see people wallowing in pity for more than 16 minutes.

"Hey Lila this is Debbie Norville. Do you want to be on my show today??"

Lila: "No thanks Debbie, instead of wasting the money on air fare, a hotel and makeup, make a donation to the fund I set up in my son's name.
I figured if Michael Moore makes money with my pain I might be able to parley this into something that may help some other kid out there. You know, a college fund that may keep a kid in school, as opposed to having them join the service..."

[Soledad]

Sara, do you think you'd see it again? I've been offered another pair of tickets but I'm not so sure I can handle another viewing.

I am glad to see that it will be available on video/dvd by September. Hopefully it will help get Bush out.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Soleded,

I'm not sure if I'll see it again. I went by myself as I didn't think my husband would want to see it. Now he says he does.... so I might. If I do at least I'll know when to close my eyes...

[Edwina's Secretary]

Moore spends the first part of the movie going over the 2000 elections and how they were stolen.

Perhaps because the election, like 9/11, is a national tragedy that should not be forgotten?

Maybe we can get Mr Peabody, Sherman and the Way-Back Machine to go back and change a few votes.

Whoever these people are need only COUNT the votes, they don't need to change any of them!

You'd think the leader of a country would at least WANT to take care of his people.

Would that be the "HAVES" or the "HAVE NOTS"?????

As long as we are talking senate trivia, you may recall from the film that only ONE congressperson has a child serving in the armed forces!

[Lady's Human]

The votes were counted. Several major media outlets did their own counts and came out with President Bush winning Florida repeatedly. The votes that WEREN't counted were votes from servicemembers serving overseas who had their ballots disqualified because they weren't postmarked. Military mail coming from theater is almost NEVER postmarked.

[RICHARD]

Where are the chemical weapons we used?????

I guess since we can't find any truth to that rumor, we can just ignore if and go on to the next fallacy.

tee hee--


The best scene of 9/11 is when Spiderman kicks Michael Moore's rear end...



You compare 9/11 to the election???? and call it a national tragedy?

Now that's a slap in the face of almost 4,000 dead people.....


If you own a globe the part that says "North Pole"
goes on top.

[Edwina's Secretary]

How many dead Iraqi civilians = tragedy? When we reach 4000 dead soldiers in Iraqi (and who knows how many maimed) will that be a national tragedy?

Richard, knowing the importance you place on accuracy I think rounding 2,996 up to 4,000 MIGHT be a little bit of hyperbole?

And I'm curious...why do you so often fall back on sarcasm and insults when you disagree with someone?

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
How many dead Iraqi civilians = tragedy? When we reach 4000 dead soldiers in Iraqi (and who knows how many maimed) will that be a national tragedy?

And I'm curious...why do you so often fall back on sarcasm and insults when you disagree with someone?

I think it hit the tragedy level when I saw the bodies of Kuwaiti citizens hung from the booms of construction equipment in 91...

Geez,
What an optimist you are....4,000?????

LOLOLOLOL

I really don't disagree with most people. As a matter of fact we are probably closer in philosophy than you think.....it's that mean political animal in me that makes me lash out and
wanna argue.

I fall back on insults and sarcasm when I see someone posts something like WE USED CHEMWEPS IN IRAQ - I am sure someone like an embedded journalist would have seen and reported that fact.

I'd like to see someone, anyone, post two articles verifying that story, first it was napalm, then chemweps.

Next it will be a story about our mistreatment of prisoners of war at a prison I can't spell...

Again,
If MM is such a documentarian, purveyor of truth and a real American, why did he sit on the Abu Ghraib story IF he had it in his paws???

Did he choose filthy lucre over conscience?
Self promotion over selflessness?
Or was he confused about what he was looking at?.

Yep, some news outlets had the same story and sat on it.....But MM, the honest guy that he is, did not want to be accused of self promotion for his shockumentary-but he did choose to put the clip of the guy getting his package grabbed thru the blanket in the movie.

Were you properly shocked and aghast at some of the pictures of those bodies???

Where were the pictures of American men and women who were wounded and mained?

Instead we get interviews with soldiers saying the
play rock music while they kill people....

What's wrong with Celine Dion??


One of the most powerful pictures I saw in the last month was the Marine at Reagan's funeral...
You may have seen him, James E. Wright.

He lost both his hands in Iraq, won a Bronze Star in the process, put on his uniform and went to view the casket....

Most of us would have said p!ss on it.....I'm done, it's over...and sat done to have a proper pity party, what do you think drove this kid to
put on the uniform of his country, the country that sent him to lose his hands in a foreign country, and go out in public to honor a dead president.

It wasn't a Micheal Moore 'movie'.

-------------------------

Sarcasm??

Sometimes that's the only way I can get an answer.

Sometimes I am wrong.

I do have my globe upside down in the holder, it gives me an different outlook on the world and sometimes it makes more sense.

Now if you can get me a story about the United States using chemical weapons against Iraqi citizens I'll apologize to you.

Really!

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary


Richard, knowing the importance you place on accuracy I think rounding 2,996 up to 4,000 MIGHT be a little bit of hyperbole?

DAMN,
I was counting the people in the WTC and all the soldiers that have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.


God forbid we lose 4,000 soldiers in this war...

Then I'll have to revise my totals to the more ominous 6,996...

---------------------------------------


When you hyperbole do you rent your shoes???

I have to.

[Catsnclay]

Originally posted by DJFyrewolf36

I take everything I see and hear in the media with a truckload of salt. The truth is out there, its just hiding most of the time.

Watch/read things that quite obviously divert from your beliefs. Watch/read EVERYTHING you can.

And don't believe 99.9% of it

Stress is bad for you.

Ok I'm done.

Just remember, anyone can take film clips and turn them into a different story. It happens all the time.

One local news station is notorious for doing that here......they will state a headline to "catch" your attention, then when actually watching the "news" you realize that the headline had nothing to do with the "real" story.......if that's what it really was.

Politics do it all the time, just watch the campain spots.

[Edwina's Secretary]

God forbid we lose 4,000 soldiers in this war...

From your lips to God's ear.....or perhaps I should say...from your keyboard to God's computer screen!