A Few Questions on Feeding Raw.

[finn's mom]

I wasn't really going to feed many Veggies, since I don't have a blender..

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece.

[binka_nugget]

Ditto what Jordan said. I'd probably add RMBs or meat instead of more organs.

[.sarah]

I feed prey-model raw, which is as close to wild as you can get. BARF is totally different. It involves grinding, veggies, and lots of supplements. It is usually modeled after Dr. Ian Billinghurst's advice (I DO NOT reccomend his books, there are much better books out there with more accurate information for someone looking to feed prey-model. His reccomendations are all wrong in my opinion. )

Prey-model is so, so easy. Think about what a wolf eats in the wild. They eat whole prey, or nearly whole prey when shared with their pack. They eat the meat, bones, and organs, and shake out the stomach contents (this means minimal or no veggies). They are scavengers and do occassionally eat fruits and berries but unless if it is pureed or pupled (like stomach contents) they don't get any nutrition from it. Their teeth cannot grind grains or break open the cell walls of veggies where all the nutritious cellulose is.

Supplements are pointless in my opinion unless if you are addressing a specific problem. Nova is fed five fish oil pills a day to help with her allergies and joints. Mandy gets two a day for her joints, and Buck and Luka get one as a treat. Dairy is a waste of time and money in my opinion, since dogs are lactose intolerant after 16 weeks of age.

Boney foods should be avoided unless if they are fed with a cut of boneless meat or are still attatched to a larger part of the animal. For example, I would never reccomend chicken wings, necks, or backs on their own, they are too boney. Wings and necks also tend to be easy to choke on for larger dogs. If they are still attatched to the bird they are great, but otherwise I would skip them and spend your money on better cuts.

Watching for sales will make raw even cheaper. If chicken quarters are on sale and you can stock up, then feed chicken quarters for a while. Balance over time is key, so if you feed chicken quarters for two weeks and then feed another meat on sale for two weeks, and then another meat, you will be fine. Dogs don't need day-to-day balance, they need balance over time.

Organs should be about 10% of the diet with liver being 50% of that (5% of the total diet). The percentages for feeding raw are I think what turn a lot of people off. Just guess. Feed a chicken liver a week or cut up another source of liver into chicken liver sizes. Feed less liver if your dog is having loose stool. Feed a variety of different animal livers and other organs if possible.

Feed anything you can get your hands on. Animal protein is animal protein, it is all useful for dogs! Only things I would avoid are bare-nekkid bones (bones with minimal or no meat), and bones from a weight-bearing animal such as cows, buffalo, moose, etc. You have to be careful with these bones, they are so dense and can break or chip teeth. I would avoid beef ribs totally, they are not usually covered in much meat.




For "menus" ... let's see, how about I list everything I feed that I can remember.

Beef brisket - They had some of this yesterday. It was $.93/lb and a one-pound piece took them a while to eat. It is boneless but sort of tough. They loved it!

Beef tongue - Tongue is very rich and can cause the runs if fed in large portions. I feed about 1/4 lb at a time and always feed it with a RMB, never boneless meat, to cut out on the chance of loose stools.

Boneless pork - I normally don't buy boneless but this was on sale at a great price!

Pork ribs - These are always the cheapest ribs and are usually very meaty. The dogs love 'em!

Pork roasts - This is what they had today. They were 8 lb suckers with lots, and I mean LOTS, of meat on them. It comes with skin on.

Pig ears - Mostly use these as treats to keep them busy.

Pig feet and pork necks - These are generally cheap but are very boney so I keep them on hand in case somebody has loose stool. Or I will feed these with organs to off-set the boney-ness (organs are very rich).

Boneless buffalo - Isn't fed often because it is so dern expensive. I have a bunch of coupons though and so I get some each time I go to the grocery store.

Turkey legs - These tend to be very large and meaty. The ones I get at the grocery store are about 1 lb each. The ones I get at the butcher are 2-2.5 lbs each.

Whole chickens - I usually buy whole fryer chickens and cut them in halves or quarters. I split the organs up between the dogs when I feed them.

Chicken quarters - I buy these if they are on sale cheaper than whole chickens (remember whole prey is always better).

Rabbit - I am talking to a supplier right now and will start getting almost all of my meat from her. She sells whole rabbits, with everything intact, unless if I request them otherwise.

Lamb shanks - These go on sale every now and then at Publix and I always stock up since they are usually very expensive. I have about 15 shanks out in my freezer right now. Lamb seems to be Buck's favorite.

Fish - I buy trout the most often because it is cheapest. Salmon is occassional. I tried Tilapia the other day. The Labs loved it but Mandy didn't care for it which is odd for her, because fish is her favorite. My dad catches a lot of snapper and mullet and he will give me whatever he doesn't use.

Organs and muscle meat - Beef liver, beef kidney, beef heart, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, chicken hearts, pork liver, pork kidney, pork fries, all rabbit organs, turkey organs and some others, probably.


I feed more than this, but am having a brain fart




I can't say enough how much the Yahoo! group rawfeeding has been of help to me. They were my lifeline when I first switched the dogs. The knowledge that people there have is really invaluable. Join it!!!

[.sarah]

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece.

Since dogs don't have teeth that will break open the cell walls where all of the nutrients are, feeding veggies whole doesn't do much for nutritional benefits. My mom gives them as treats sometimes (makes her feel better lol). No harm, but doesn't do much benefit either.

[bckrazy]

Sarah... I understand that Dr. Billinghurst has recently started advocating grinding. I'm talking about his book from several years ago, Give Your Dog A Bone. There is nothing wierd about the book - not even mention of grinding. Just info about raw meaty bones, how much to feed, how often, etc. What is in this book is basically the same as your info in that post, and basically what you feed. =P I do think the new grinding thing is dumb, for sure.

[.sarah]

Sarah... I understand that Dr. Billinghurst has recently started advocating grinding. I'm talking about his book from several years ago, Give Your Dog A Bone. There is nothing wierd about the book - not even mention of grinding. Just info about raw meaty bones, how much to feed, how often, etc. What is in this book is basically the same as your info in that post, and basically what you feed. =P I do think the new grinding thing is dumb, for sure.

Oh, really? I though Give Your Dog A Bone was one of the new ones Sorry!

I really, really reccomend Tom Lonsdale's books if you want books to read. Though I don't think they're really needed with that Yahoo! group, to be honest. That group knows just as much as the book writers and they are there to answer wierd and stupid questions

[IRescue452]

Autumn has never had a carrot come out whole, so something breaks them down. I think whole carrots are good for their teeth too. Either way, its a healthy treat, much better than giving fattening treats all the time.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Thanks for all the helpful info! Lily and Roxy occasionally get fruits and veggies, and yogurt for little treats anyways. They love things like Beggin Strips, but I'm sure they'd like other things better...
Okay I have a few more questions...
What would be something good to start them out on?
How often should they get organs?
If I use Veggies, how much a week?
How many meals should I split into one day?
I think that's it.. If I think of anything else I'll come back and edit.
Thought of somthing else.. My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..?

[IRescue452]

Sorry I'm off the questions a bit, but how much do you normally pay for soup bones? Autumn gets smoked femur bones occasionally without chipping her teeth so I decided to try a soup bone today. It was 99 cents a pound and 2.29 altogether. Not extremely cheap if you ask me but the local meat market is kinda expensive to begin with. They are more of a showy catering place with some retail on the side.

[.sarah]

What would be something good to start them out on?
Chicken works well. It's cheap and bland and rarely causes a problem for dogs.

How often should they get organs?
It doesn't matter, really. If you want to feed them once a week that is fine, every day is also fine, and so is once every few weeks. Only thing I wouldn't reccomend is an all-organ meal, because that tends to cause the runs. And if you decide to feed them every day (which is a pain, I wouldn't reccomend trying that) then make sure you aren't giving too many organs. I think it's easier to feed them once or twice a week.

If I use Veggies, how much a week?
It shouldn't take over the diet. A tablespoon a day max, so about 7 tablespoons a week. What is that, a cup a week?

How many meals should I split into one day?
One meal a day is fine. You can feed two meals if that makes you feel better, but generally it is hard to get everything portion sized when you feed two meals.

My dogs are both normally active, especially on walks. Could that change the price of feeding them Raw..?
It will mean you need to feed more to keep weight on. Those percentages are meant for adult dogs with a moderate activity level. You may need to adjust their feeding portions but I can't imagine it being drastically different from the reccomend amounts. My dogs are all active but the girls eat way less than what is reccomended. The percentage says they need 1.5 lbs a day, and they eat .75 lbs a day. So maybe it will be cheaper than you are expecting Buck is right on target for what they reccomend, but he is also still growing.

[Roxyluvsme13]

What would be something good to start them out on?
Chicken works well. It's cheap and bland and rarely causes a problem for dogs.

How often should they get organs?
It doesn't matter, really. If you want to feed them once a week that is fine, every day is also fine, and so is once every few weeks. Only thing I wouldn't reccomend is an all-organ meal, because that tends to cause the runs. And if you decide to feed them every day (which is a pain, I wouldn't reccomend trying that) then make sure you aren't giving too many organs. I think it's easier to feed them once or twice a week.

If I use Veggies, how much a week?
It shouldn't take over the diet. A tablespoon a day max, so about 7 tablespoons a week. What is that, a cup a week?

How many meals should I split into one day?
One meal a day is fine. You can feed two meals if that makes you feel better, but generally it is hard to get everything portion sized when you feed two meals.

Okay, so.. if I fed them both about midday (3-ish?) I could give them some meat and a cup full of veggies, and maybe one day adding an organ in there and reducing the meat a bit? Chicken sounds okay, I'll have to check out our local butcher. I'm so afraid that I'm going to measure wrong or something and they're not going to have enough to eat..

Okay. They're lazy somedays, and active somedays, depends on their mood. Roxy I suppose needs about 1.25-1.5 pounds, and Lily .25?


I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?

[Kfamr]

They may be able to digest the carrots/fruits/veggies, but not in a way to benefit them.

The cell walls of plants fruits/veggies are made of cellulose, dogs cannot digest cellulose, thusare unable to get to the nutrients in the fruits/veggies.

[Kfamr]

I forgot to add, What kind of Vegetables would you feed?

Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
bananas
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
raspberries
garlic

[Roxyluvsme13]

Here are a few I've found that are okay for dogs (pureed.)

Romaine Lettuce - No iceberg as it has no nutritional value
Parsley (small amounts)
Carrots
Pumpkin
Spinach
Silver beet
Tomatoes
Red, green, yellow capsicum peppers
Cabbage
broccoli
cauliflower
apples
whole oranges
papayas
mangoes
kiwi
cantaloupe
garlic

Now I need a blender..
Actually, Couldn't I use Cottage Cheese, Cheese, and Yogurt?

[Kfamr]

Yes, you do!

I prefer using our food processor VS. blender - it seems to puree the veggies a lot better. I also add a bit of water/milk if it's having trouble mixing it.

I'm weird but I have fun mixing up weird veggie/fruit combos.

*edit* Just saw the question. Do you mean to add to the veggie puree mixture? If so, yes. Cottage Cheese & plain yogurt are good, too. However, I'm not sure how much/what types of cheese are good for them.