"One nation UNDER GOD" banned?

[popcornbird]

But........but.........but.............then why don't Atheists complain about using dollar bills? After all, they also say *In GOD we Trust* on them. Hmmm...............Are we going to change our money too?

[CamCamPup33]

Originally posted by popcornbird
But........but.........but.............then why don't Atheists complain about using dollar bills? After all, they also say *In GOD we Trust* on them. Hmmm...............Are we going to change our money too?

OO's and AHH's, Good point pops..

[2kitties]

Yes, Poppy. The money is very offensive. Please send all your offensive money to me as I am the official collector of the offensive money.
Please PM me for my address.

But yes, I addressed that in my first post. It needs to come off, IMO. I imagine that the precident set by this case will lead to lots of spinoffs.
E Pluribus Unum" works fine for money and anything else we need to have a national motto printed on.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by CamCamPup33
*Ahem*

I believe it's 8.. LOL!

I counted eight and took out one for the space..



2K,

I guess you won't take a check???

[popcornbird]

Originally posted by 2kitties
Yes, Poppy. The money is very offensive. Please send all your offensive money to me as I am the official collector of the offensive money.
Please PM me for my address.

Sorry.............won't fall for your trick in stealing all my money and making me bankrupt!!!

[mugsy]

While I am all for separation of church and state, I will say that the guy in CA that started this whole thing failed to take something into consideration....we are a democratic republic where majority rules....and the majority of people (in the many polls I've seen) would rather see "under God" stay in the pledge. My parents are both of the opinion that it never should have been put in in the first place (and I agree).

Money is the other issue....I agree...you don't see atheists who object to the Pledge so strongly, refusing to take money. Hmmmm....perhaps we should point that out to them.

All we are actually doing by making this a HUGE political thing and wasting the court's time and the taxpayers' money is giving this guy attention that he doesn't deserve.

As for the debate at hand. If we take God out of everything political, we may be better off. But, I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers had in mind. Our country was founded on religious freedom (although the Pilgrims and Puritans didn't practice it) and at that time the issue was just what Christian religion was being practiced. I don't think that they ever would have imagined all the other religions that would have come to these shores. Remember, the NATIVE Americans were pagan, but, the Europeans came over thinking that their way was the only way and look what happened!

So, that was a long winded explanation of my opinion which is basically that religion should stay out of politics...I'm with 2kitties.

[Pam]

Well we had better start tearing down many of the buildings in Washington which have scripture inscribed on their walls. Just take a look at this country since prayer was banished from the schools. Need I say more? You want to leave God out? This country will reap what it sows. I truly hope this doesn't happen. This is just plain sad.

[CathyBogart]

I'm pagan, and while these don't particularly bother me, I never stood for or said the pledge of allegiance in school for just this reason. I would rather see religion and politics completely separated, and I admire this man for taking the time to stand up for what he believes in. I hope it will be the first step towards getting religion removed from other things too. (Yes, even the almighty dollar)

Oh, and if you want your kids to pray in school, there are plenty of religious private schools! I became pagan around fourth grade when I started actually researching different religions, and the more I learn the happier I am. I was as stubborn then as I am now, and I probably would have walked out and not looked back.

[Pam]

Originally posted by WolfChan
Oh, and if you want your kids to pray in school, there are plenty of religious private schools!

That is exactly what I had to do!!! I had to pay the equivalent of a mortgage payment to give my children the same kind of education that I received years before for free (with God not only allowed but mentioned and .... GASP!!! we actually read the Bible in school!! DOUBLE GASP!) Guess what!! It didn't hurt anyone, and no one was being shot to death in school and drugs were non-existent and teen pregnancy was rare. If you think today is better, (you weren't even around then) you are sadly wrong.

[mugsy]

Originally posted by Pam
Just take a look at this country since prayer was banished from the schools.

Pam,

As an educator, I would like to say something about this. I do not know how it is in other states, but, I am assuming it is similar. I do not have enough minutes in my classes to cover all the material that the state says that I have to teach. I wouldn't have enough time in the day for prayers of all of the religions that I have in my classes (and our school isn't all that balanced). While I respect your opinion, I have to disagree. I guess, I believe that if someone wants to pray, they have the right to do so privately and I wouldn't intervere. Personally, I would not feel comfortable leading a prayer in a public school.

I suppose that just follows my opinion that there should be a separation of church and state. I have no problem with religion, being that I am Catholic, but, I think that there is a time and place and government offices and schools, etc are not the place.

I do, however, understand your side.

Molly

[Pam]

Molly thank you for a rational reply. Regarding your comment about silent prayer still being acceptable, along the same lines I would hope that if it eventually becomes "inappropriate" recite *Under God* that any student who wishes to say it out loud on their own, during the recitation of the Pledge, would be allowed that right or if, likewise, someone wanted to pray out loud. After all we do still have free speech don't we?

[mugsy]

Pam,

I will say that I don't care if they pray outloud...just not when I'm teaching! Along the same lines, I think that Campus Life should be held off campus as well...again, my views on separation of church and state.

Actually, to tell you the truth, I find people who are extreme on either end of the spectrum offensive. The religious fanatics are equally obnoxious to me as the atheist/pagan fanatics. Personally, people should be able to believe whatever way they so choose, just don't shove it down other people's throats. I guess that's pretty much why I don't think public prayer should be in schools...that way, it SHOULD become a non-issue simply because it isn't happening and everyone can do their thing on their own time.

A man I teach with is a devout atheist, should we, in good faith, ask him to lead a class in a prayer when he doesn't believe? I guess I think that would be kind of hypocritical. Not only that, he would flat out refuse to do so and it would get REALLY ugly.

[CathyBogart]

Well, guess what...*gasp* We didn't have any of those problems at the school I went to either! We had the obligatory "problem children" of course, but I can think of perhaps fifteen out of four thousand students who were involved with drugs or got pregnant as teens. (Myself included)

I just called my grandmother who was in school "way back when" and she has confirmed that she doesn't think that things have degraded as much as you imply. She told me "Well, we had our share of problems too, but we didn't make them public!" So my guess is that in part people are just more open about their lives.

Also, my grandmother mntioned that just about everyone had an after-school job or other obligations that often kept them quite busy, so they might not have had TIME to discovere recreational drugs or premarital sex.

Personally, I think that the real solution lies in proper sex ed and more incentive to join after school activities. But hey, that might be just me.

Edited to add; I don't think I'm a "fanatic", I'm just adament about not letting stuff get shoved down my throat either. *chuckles*

[mugsy]

Oh trust me.....things are A LOT worse in schools than they were when I was (and prayer had already been banned). I see it on a daily basis. Things are worse then they were in 1988 when I started subbing. There is no respect for authority, rules, etc. I believe that it can be attributed to the further breakdown of the family. I probably don't have 1/3 of my kids that are living with both parents who are married. When I was in school in the '70s, I only knew 3 or 4 kids whose parents were divorced. I certainly didn't see teen pregnancy like it is now....in 1990, I had 3 EIGHTH graders who were pregnant in one year....when I was in school....I knew 2 the entire time I was in high school....

but....we digress from the original post....sorry...

[Felicia's Mom]

Like some others, I can remember not saying the words "Under God" in the pledge. One day the teacher told the class to say those words and where to say them. To me they were just two extra words to remember. (I was in the second grade).