***Cosmo Has Kidney Disease ***

[elizabethann]

Cosmo is back from the vets. He seems to be doing a little better. Though he is crying allot & is not too steady on his feet. Tomorrow & Saturday I will be giving him fluids by myself (350cc's). Then they said not to give him anymore and to watch him and see how he does. But I'm afraid to stop the fluids. What if I stop & he gets dehydrated again & stops eating? I think it would be cruel to do that to him. What do you think?

[jazzcat]

Cosmo is back from the vets. He seems to be doing a little better. Though he is crying allot & is not too steady on his feet. Tomorrow & Saturday I will be giving him fluids by myself (350cc's). Then they said not to give him anymore and to watch him and see how he does. But I'm afraid to stop the fluids. What if I stop & he gets dehydrated again & stops eating? I think it would be cruel to do that to him. What do you think?

I think you will know quickly if he needs more because he really should perk up with all that he's getting and you will see a decline when he needs more. The main thing I've been told is to watch them closely.

Cosmo is gorgeous!!!! Looks like a big loveable Maine Coon kitty.

[rg_girlca]

I am so sorry that your gorgeous boy Cosmo has kidney disease.

You have been given some great advice from others who have been through this with their own cats.

Prayers being sent out to Cosmo that he has many, many, MANY more years with you.

((((((HUGS)))))) for you.

[Barbara]

Filou is on fluids now since April 2005. He's doing very well.
He gets weekly fluids but of course the amount and frequency depends on the state of the kidneys- so it will be more often later

In the case of Cosmo it was kind of a kidney crisis, so they will start with IV fluids- as opposite to the Sub-q fluids that you can administer yourself.

Many kitties here have become better after such a crisis and I am sure Cosmo will have quite some happy time with you.

One thing about kidney transplant: If you transplant a kidney in humans then in many cases it is a donor who knows about it and has agreed. In the case of cats the kidney is taken from another kitty who has no chance to agree to anything.... I would never do that. It is a risky operation and it is not sure that my cat would live that much longer and with much better life quality. Filou is only ten years old and when he has to go it will break my heart- but I will not put two kitties under the stress of a kidney transplant.

[elizabethann]

Do or did any of you question whether it was right to keep giving your cat fluids? I'm sort of in a moral delimma and would like to hear your opinions on this subject.

I feel like I'm keeping Cosmo alive. But I'm starting to feel it's morally wrong and that I should put him to sleep. But then I see him and it breaks my heart - I don't want to lose him. I wonder if I'm being selfish by keeping him alive. He's doing "okay". He hasn't perked up too much. He's not running around like he used to. He's definetly a changed cat.

I'm just wondering if anybody felt or feels the same way as me.

[Catty1]

I don't have experience with this - but in general, he has been at the vet's for two days, has had a lot of changes....just keep up the fluids, keep an eye on him, and give him lots of love! It may take several days for him to feel secure again.

Love makes a big difference.

[elizabethann]

I don't have experience with this - but in general, he has been at the vet's for two days, has had a lot of changes....just keep up the fluids, keep an eye on him, and give him lots of love! It may take several days for him to feel secure again.

Love makes a big difference.

Thanks for your encouraging & kind words.

Cosmo thanks you too.

[Killearn Kitties]

I don't have experience with giving sub-Q fluids, although I am following the thread and wishing you and Cosmo all the best.

My own feeling is that it is much to early to feel that you are keeping him alive unfairly. All the evidence on this thread points to the fact that cats can recover very well from this stage and have a good quality of life for quite some time afterwards. If I was in your position, I think I would give it a bit longer and just see how he gets on over the next few week.

Lots of luck to you both.

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

My own feeling is that it is much to early to feel that you are keeping him alive unfairly. All the evidence on this thread points to the fact that cats can recover very well from this stage and have a good quality of life for quite some time afterwards. If I was in your position, I think I would give it a bit longer and just see how he gets on over the next few week.

Ditto.

Of course, this is a decision that only you can make because you are there and you know him and can "read" him better than we can. All we know is what you are telling us and what we have experienced. I suppose there are cats out there that didn't respond to the fluids, but from what I can tell, the majority of cats have recovered and lived full lives for several months or even years after the first initial infusion of fluids.

I believe that Cosmo will let you know when he's ready. He's been through a lot in the past few days and it's not surprising that it's taking him a little while to come around fully. If he were mine, I'd give him a little time yet.

[Lizzie]

I want to say "Please give Cosmo more time" but he's your cat and only you can decide. I've had five cats that have gone through this to varying degrees, two very mild and the other three chronic, and they were all pole-axed by it at first. When I was both force feeding and hydrating mine, I was often in tears and beating myself up about what I was putting them through. In each case, though, after a few weeks they started to be their old selves and within a month or so it was an established routine and simply a small part of their very good lives.

You have to give Cosmo time to adjust to being handled a lot in a way that he's not going to enjoy. All you can do, I think, is enrich the rest of his time with you. Give him extra attention before the fluids, and give him extra lap time afterwards. Make sure that you both feel that the disease and treatment is just a small part of his life and not the only aspect of it. Focus on some fun things you want to do with him.

Regarding the fluids, they didn't tell you to give 350 at one time?! Sub-q fluids can put a strain on a cat's heart and the max I ever gave at one time was 200cc, to a 15 pound and youngish cat with no heart problems. I always found that by 150cc, the cat is getting super restless and it was only that Ted's ran in fast that I could hold him for 200cc. It's 350cc over the course of the next three days? If they want you to do this and then stop, I'm sure they will want to do a blood re-test on him by the middle of next week. At least, that's what my always did since it's the only sure way to know what is going on. At this state, and given Cosmo's poor initial reading, I wouldn't go on just my observations.

[elizabethann]

Regarding the fluids, they didn't tell you to give 350 at one time?! Sub-q fluids can put a strain on a cat's heart and the max I ever gave at one time was 200cc, to a 15 pound and youngish cat with no heart problems. I always found that by 150cc, the cat is getting super restless and it was only that Ted's ran in fast that I could hold him for 200cc. It's 350cc over the course of the next three days? If they want you to do this and then stop, I'm sure they will want to do a blood re-test on him by the middle of next week. At least, that's what my always did since it's the only sure way to know what is going on. At this state, and given Cosmo's poor initial reading, I wouldn't go on just my observations.

Yes. The first time I brought him in and they showed me how to do it, they gave him 350 cc's. So they told me to do 350 cc's today and tomorrow. Then stop & see how he's doing. They didn't even tell me to call them or set up an appointment regarding blood work for next week. Now I'm really upset. Should I call them and ask them why I'm giving him so much? Or should I just do what I was told for the next 2 days? Kidney disease sucks. I wish cats & dogs lived forever.

[Lizzie]

I did a little web cruising to find out more on amounts of fluids to give and blood tests. This site looks very good: http://www.felinecrf.com/ and is packed with information, including write-ins from vets. That site states that frequent blood tests are not a good idea, so it's an individual vet call I guess. I certainly didn't like it when they took blood two weeks running, but I went with the vet recommedation and it was okay. Few sites seem to mention amount of fluid, stating that it's case by case, but one said 100-150 which is what I was used to. However, another said that her cat had 300cc a day in his sickest early days, so another case by case call.

Are you with a vet that you know and trust? Have you always felt confidence in him/her? If so, then you need to follow their expert advice.

One more thing, and I really don't want to panic you but I do need to ask. Did your vet tell you to watch Cosmo for breathlessness while he was getting fluids? They can put pressure on the pleural cavity and make it a bit difficult for the cat to breathe easily. You will know right away because Cosmo's side will start moving in and out like bellows.

Cosmo's care can become a routine, but it is not easy. I absolutely hated and dreaded it, but then it became as routine as giving pills.

[elizabethann]

Thanks for the site. I've been using a TON of sites. Most are very helpful.

My vet never told me about breathlessness. It's not that I don't feel confident in my vet, it's that I feel like any other patient. I don't feel special and I don't feel they go out of the way to help me. I never have. I've been going to this guy for eons and always say to myself that I'm going to find another vet. But I never have. There aren't any vets in the town where I live. They also lost one vet so they're not open on Saturday's which I find very inconvenient. If I need a vet on Saturday, I have to go to the emergency vet in Manchester.

There are 2 Cat Doctors that I found in NH. They soley do cat's, no other kinds of animals. However, one's in Dover & the other is in Nashua. Both long rides for Cosmo. He HATES the car.

If worse comes to worse and I don't feel like they're giving Cosmo the attention they deserve, I will go to one of the Cat Doctor's.

My sister mentioned Tuft's in Boston. I may even check them out. I figure if Cosmo has to go for a ride, it may be one to the big city.

Thanks so much for your help! I REALLY appreciate it!

[Lizzie]

In your place, I would take Cosmo to one of the cat specialists for one assessment and conference with a true expert very soon. Ask your vet for Cosmo's record, especially his blood results, and tell him what you are doing. He should understand. I've done it with several of my cats for different things and my vet was completely understanding. Actually, the fact that you are seeking more expert opinion may jolt your vet out of his seeming lethargy. This visit will make you feel that you are doing everything you can for Cosmo, and will give you both reassurance and confidence to continue with his treatment. It's a very positive step which I know always makes me feel better.

Another poster mentioned kidney transplant and I remember wanting to do this very badly for both my Artful Dodger and Ted, but there was no way that I could afford it. I would have taken them to U.C. Davis, which is the closest veterinary transplant center to Seattle. There, they use cats from humane societies as donors, and the kidney recipient's guardian has to take the donor cat home with them, and take care of them for life. My vet told me that they do not remove the malfunctioning kidney from the cat but put the donor kidney in the chest cavity - that surprised me.

[Barbara]

Regarding Filou I think the fluids are not a lot of stress. And the life he is having is a fun life. Yesterday a moth came into our living room and he had a ball catching it (and eating it )
He is happy, cuddly, funny and sweet. I feel I'm doing the right thing for him. If you feel Cosmo doesn't enjoy his life- then you may question it. But on the other hand if he's happy- then he should get his fluids as long as they help him.