the presidential debates

[guster girl]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
guster girl -

OK here is what I found. It confuses me too, as it seems to state one thing and then another.

Read the full bill here:
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s3.html

(O) For these reasons, Congress finds that partial-birth abortion is never medically indicated to preserve the health of the mother; is in fact unrecognized as a valid abortion procedure by the mainstream medical community; poses additional health risks to the mother; blurs the line between abortion and infanticide in the killing of a partially-born child just inches from birth; and confuses the role of the physician in childbirth and should, therefore, be banned.

Sec. 1531. Partial-birth abortions prohibited

(a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the enactment.

Yeah, thank you for posting that. Although, reading it was not easy, and, I don't know that I'm any clearer on it. I'll keep reading it, though, and, maybe get someone to help me out with it.

[mugsy]

I'm going to save reading the responses until I get home, but would like to say that I ate lunch with my very liberal friend today and we discussed the debates and both of us made the same observation. Kerry wiped up the floor with Bush in debate 1, Bush looked a little bit better in debate 2 (albeit he looked angry) while Kerry fell a little shorter than in debate 1, but still won it and that last night's debate was pretty much a draw. Neither one of them would give a straight answer to anything (although I did miss the first half because I was cooking chicken! lol)

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by mugsy
(although I did miss the first half because I was cooking chicken! lol)

hahahahahaha,


Tipped your hand--

A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.

Herbert Hoover.

[christa]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Christa,
I'm a disgruntle male, does that count in this election???

DEFINITELY!

[christa]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
That those who think it is a 'low blow' is more telling about them than about Kerry.

Geez Liz . . . guess you told me!

[christa]

Originally posted by leslie
We all do know, right (and this may have come up in an earlier post, I didn't read them all) that Bush is of the religion that believes he and his ilk are going to heaven and the rest of us will suffer on earth. I do forget the name of the religion... Anyone?? It's quite "popular" right now among college students so the hype says to promote the videos and books...!! We will be burning eternally on earth if we don't join them (not to offend anyone here who may be of his same faith).

Too late, I'm already offended.

It's called Christianity and it doesn't seem like you know much about this religion . . . you might want to research it a little more before you bash it.

[Uabassoon]

By the way, let me be the first to say that Kerry's comments about Cheney's daughter was a LOW BLOW!

How was that a low blow? She's not ashamed of being a lesbian, it isn't an insult. Kerry was using her as an example because it hits close to home, he wanted to show that people have gay family members, people that you know and love could be gay.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Uabassoon
How was that a low blow? She's not ashamed of being a lesbian, it isn't an insult. Kerry was using her as an example because it hits close to home, he wanted to show that people have gay family members, people that you know and love could be gay.

It has nothing to do with her sexuality.

It's really a guy thing...

When you are talking smack, you keep talking smack....

You don't bring, "Yo Mama" or "Yo Daddy" into it...

That's getting A THIRD party into the convo and Kerry was wrong for bringing it up....

HAD he been talking to Cheney himself, then bring it up.....

The Cheney could have told him to Eff Off on TV and then run over, B-slapped him and torn his shirt.

That's the unwritten etiquette when guys argue.


Finally,

A topic that I know alot about....



------------------------------------

And about the Christianity thing going on here.....

Should you end up in Hell....
Look me up when you get there!!
I'll be at the first table to the right as you walk thru the doors.
I'll save you a spot!!

Love,
Prince of Darkness!

[catland]

Originally posted by RICHARD
And if you noticed the polls NEVER add up to 100%
and that plus/minus sign.....that pisses me off because I can never type it when I quote statistics....

±

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by catland
±

why do I bother?

[christa]

Richard: Couldn't have said it better myself.

I felt that Kerry was using Cheney's daughter's sexual orientation in order to SHOCK conservative voters . . . Sorry, just feel that that's a low blow. And it especially seems planned, considering that it's the second time it's come up during the debates, once by Kerry, once by Edwards.

Regardless of her lifestyle, she's Cheney's daughter . . . leave the kids out of it, Johnny Boy!!!

But I can't decide what's worse . . . Kerry's comments during the debate, or Elizabeth Edwards saying that the Cheney's are "ashamed" of their daughter. What gives her the authority or right to say that?

The Cheney's aren't very happy with what Kerry said.
Quotes taken from msnbc.com

Mrs. Lynne Cheney: “Now, you know, I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more and now the only thing I could conclude: This is not a good man. Of course, I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom. This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick.”

VP Cheney: “You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected, and I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father.”

[Mkitty]

i just wanted to say that Bush is right to have his religious beliefs with him. it is what we were all originally founded from, and he i fine with other religions and isn't trying to shove it down people'ss throats who have different beliefs.

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by christa
VP Cheney: “You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected, and I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father.”

Uh-Oh!! Cheney's feelings are hurt! Boo-hoo! Quick, somebody call the whaaaaaaaa-mbulance!

I will give my full opinion, you all can take it or leave it. I'm so sick of hearing about this today.

This is politics. It's less than three weeks 'til the election. Things are going to get rough on both sides. Everyone has to deal with it. This is an extremely close race, and things are getting ugly. As usual.

I don't feel bad for the Cheneys at all. In fact, I feel disgusted by their behavior. Where was Lynne Cheney when Alan Keyes said Mary Cheney was practicing "selfish hedonism" by being a lesbian???

Oh, that's right. She said nothing, and let her other daughter Liz do the talking for her. Liz had no comment on this situation at that time.

Talk about a double standard.

The right wing is making it appear that it is shameful to have a lesbian daughter by making this an issue. I agree with Elizabeth Edwards 100% on that. Homosexuals are our family and friends and fellow Americans. I wish the right wing would stop demonizing them for political reasons. And, may I point out, Senator Kerry's raising this issue was completely relevant. The question was, "Are people born gay, or do they choose to be gay?" Pointing out that the most conservative vice president in US history has a gay daughter is a relevant point. It also shows Cheney to be the hypocrite that he is.

The Bush administration is openly against gay rights, and this issue is proof that the administration wants to place their religious beliefs on the entire nation. In addition to that, they want to use being gay as a wedge issue when they see fit and they want to use it as a compassion issue when they need the votes. Yes, that's right, the party that brings you the Defense of Marriage Act wants you to know that they are compassionate towards gay America. The administration's policy towards homosexuality has always been basically, "Who cares about them?", and for them to claim that they are outraged now is just the height of hypocrisy. Everyone knows by now Mary Cheney is gay, that is practically the basis of her career, for goodness sakes! And she works for her father's campaign! She's by no means exempt from this discussion. The real question is, why doesn't someone get HER opinion on all this? Wake me up when that happens.

Cheney and Bush don't care about homosexuality. They are just more than willing to channel existing homophobia into votes in their attempt to maintain power. Lynne Cheney is expressing "outrage" at this, when her own husband used their daughter's sexuality to try and appear more moderate before his debate with Edwards?? They are the ones with the 'cheap and tawdry political trick.'

A "low blow" is the Republican party using the excuse of religion to try to keep gay couples from visiting each other in the hospital if one of them is dying.

Now, having said all that, what is sad is that this is a non-issue. We should be focused on what real issues were talked out in the debate last night, things that will actually affect our lives. Instead we have to go round and round about this stuff, because the Republicans are making an issue of it. (EDIT: I should clarify that the non-issue I am referring to is all this commenting on Kerry and Edwards mentioning Mary Cheney, NOT gay rights. That is a very important issue.)

Now, let me wrap up by saying this: this is MY OPINION. I am just giving it, I'm not trying to force it on anyone, and I'm not angry at any of you all who posted your opinions as well. I am simply encouraging coversation here. Let's talk about it! I recognize that my view are far to the left, so who knows if anyone here will agree with me. But that's what I think on this subject.

[RICHARD]

I still want to see Kerry bring it up in front of Cheney...

This country needs the fisticuffs that other countries have going on in their political arenas..


When someone pulled a 'Kerry' in my neighborhood, we'd punk him and send him out in the WAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMBULANCE!

There are three kinds of men out there

Good ones, bad ones and ones that takes pot shots at someone outside the room...

I meant to say two.

[K9soul]

I think it's really hard to know what to believe in any candidate trying to win office. I never quite know whether to believe they are really outraged and offended by the things they say against each other, or if it is all a face put on to win sympathy and support. It COULD be that Kerry's remarks were a low blow political jab... it's JUST as possible that Cheney and Lynne are putting on an outraged and victimized "mask" to make Kerry look worse. It's so hard to know what people's intentions and real feelings are when it comes to these political wars, how much is real and how much is staged for their audience, the voters.

I'm not saying it is one way or the other, I honestly truly don't know. I do think that political candidates on either side will use any leverage they can get though, it's just hard for me to figure out when they are truly feeling some emotion or if it is put on to further their cause. I think it's good to keep it in mind that what we see may not be what the reality is, on both sides.