Dog Races

[Giselle]

If you skim this thread, the acronym GPL comes up quite often. I think you'll get a pretty clear picture of some of our opinions... Anyhow, I'll just say GPL is PeTA for Greyhounds.

[DogLover9501]

Originally posted by micki76
Why do they want to end greyhound racing? Serious question. What would be the benefit?

I would *guess* less greyhounds bred? Since alot are bred for racing?

[Giselle]

Originally posted by micki76
Why do they want to end greyhound racing? Serious question. What would be the benefit?

Not the same but...

Why do they want to ban Pit bulls? What would be the benefit of banning pitties? Honestly, I think people push this out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing too far.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Giselle
Not the same but...

Why do they want to ban Pit bulls? What would be the benefit of banning pitties? Honestly, I think people push this out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing too far.

No, I mean what does GPL gain by banning greyhound racing? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by lizbud
I'd like to hear some of the new Greyhound lovers thoughts
about this Greyhound site. http://www.greyhounds.org/

You can skip the intro if you like & get right to the informational
pages. Please read all of it and then give some honest opinions.

In this case "informational pages" is a misnomer.

GPL is the PETA of the greyhound world. They are the lunatic fringe, the zealots of the greyhound world.

They extrapolate unusual incidents into industry-wide standards. They often invent problems where there are none at all. They exaggerate every number several-fold.

Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all. Their knowledge of greyhound racing is pitifully small.

It should be noted that GPL is not an adoption or rescue organization. Money sent to them goes to fund their political efforts to get racing banned.

If you have specific questions about their website let me know---I could write a book about the inconsistencies there, but I don't have room for it here.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by micki76
No, I mean what does GPL gain by banning greyhound racing? Sorry if I wasn't clear.

It's not a matter of gain---it's hard to measure the motivation of a zealot. What does PETA have to gain from banning meat from our diet? It's a nebulous question. I think some people just need to have a cause.

[micki76]

Originally posted by jcsperson
Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all. Their knowledge of greyhound racing is pitifully small.

Ok. Now you're making blanket statements and saying none of this exists at all. I'm sorry, but surely you must admit that it does happen to some extent. I'm sure there's all level of corruption in Greyhound racing, just as there is in horse racing and other sports that involve humans, money, and anything (or anyone) who can't speak up for themselves.

I hope that doesn't come accross as an attack, I just felt that was an innacurate statement. I realize that not all tracks are evil, or staffed with dog killers, but to close your eyes and say it's all great and nothing the other side says is true, is burying your head in the sand as I stated earlier.

Originally posted by jcsperson
It's not a matter of gain---it's hard to measure the motivation of a zealot. What does PETA have to gain from banning meat from our diet? It's a nebulous question. I think some people just need to have a cause.

I thought it was something along those lines, but I wasn't sure if they had anything tangible to actually gain from it.

[K9soul]

Two of their pillars of belief, puppy culling and the controversy they've created over "4D" meat do not exist at all.

I do not know what the "4D" meat controversy is about, but the puppy culling thing actually does sound very unlikely. Even someone who cared absolutely nothing about their dogs would not randomly kill puppies before racing age since they can't tell how well they will race until nearly adults right? I wouldn't think you could tell how a dog would race as a little pup.

[Love Greyhounds]

Originally posted by jcsperson
One of the sources of continuing irritation and frustration for racing people who do it right are those in the business who do not. I think AR groups tend to see the worst dogs because they get the dogs that people are just handing over. As a result they tend to see a higher proportion of hard cases than PR groups.

My group was NOT AR. It was neutral.

You're indicating that PR groups get cash and medical tx for the dogs, while neutral and AR groups pick up the tab for everything else.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by micki76
Ok. Now you're making blanket statements and saying none of this exists at all. I'm sorry, but surely you must admit that it does happen to some extent. I'm sure there's all level of corruption in Greyhound racing, just as there is in horse racing and other sports that involve humans, money, and anything (or anyone) who can't speak up for themselves.

I hope that doesn't come accross as an attack, I just felt that was an innacurate statement. I realize that not all tracks are evil, or staffed with dog killers, but to close your eyes and say it's all great and nothing the other side says is true, is burying your head in the sand as I stated earlier.

Let's stick with the issues of puppy culling and 4D meat for now to prevent this from going in several directions at once.

Puppy Culling

"As of 2001, the Greyhound Protection League estimated close to 27,000 dogs were registered to race, most born at professional breeding farms. In 2001, close to 18,000 puppies and adult greyhounds were culled or killed, according to the organization."

There is no need to estimate the numbers of dogs registered. The figures are published monthly in Greyhound Review:

2003 26,277
2002 27,142
2001 26,797
2000 26,464
1999 27,059
1998 26,036
1997 28,025
1996 28,877

Note that there has been a downward trend in registrations over the years. Historically, 80% of all pups whelped are registered. In the only five year span I could find recorded, here are the actual whelpings:

2000 34,141
1999 33,256
1998 35,801
1997 35,730
1996 36,688

Using the 2,000 figures as an example, GPL simply subtracts 26,464 from 34,141 and assumes that 7,677 pups were "culled." They do not take into account that every birth, whether stillborn or not, every puppy, whether sickly or not, is factored into that 34,141 figure. Puppy mortality in dogs can be as high as 30%, higher in small breeds, but is typically 15-25 percent. If you do the math on our 2000 example the number is 22.5%. According to the AR crowd, all these puppies were "culled." Additionally, a number of puppies who are obviously unsuitable for the track are sold as pets. These, of course, were "culled," too.

"Puppy culling" is one of the central myths of the Anti-Racing movement. It is the only way they can make their numbers work. The truth is that there is no possible reason to cull puppies in greyhounds. In show dogs, a puppy with a coat color that is not to the breed standard is often destroyed. The only time a puppy will be euthanized at a greyhound farm is when it is born so sickly that its survivability is in doubt and the only question is how much suffering it will endure. At the farm where my greyhounds were raised the farmer goes to extreme measures to save every sick puppy. One such puppy slept in her bed for three weeks until healthy enough to return to his dam. His name is Express Scrapper and he went on to finish third in the 2003 Great Greyhound Race to future Hall-of-Famer EA's Itzaboy. He earned his name Scrapper because of his will to live.

A good dam will cost you $1,000 to $15,000. The breeding to a top sire costs $1,000 to $3,000. The Artificial Implantation fees are around $500. Transportation of the bitch to the sire and back by truck could be $200 depending on distance---by air even more. With up-front costs that could range from $3,000 to $20,000, why would anyone cull the results? Furthermore, pups at the most recent NGA auction fetched $2,500 to $51,000. Why would someone deprive themselves of this income potential? The belief in culling by the AR movement is unfounded, confounding and illogical.

4D meat

The much derided 4D meat (Dead, Decaying, Diseased, Disabled) is a favorite of the AR crowd who do not understand what it is. It is, in fact, any meat not approved for human use. Imagine a line of steers at a slaughterhouse. While in line, a cow falls over and dies of an aneurysm. It could be dragged ten feet into the building and butchered, but is officially unfit for human consumption by the USDA because it died and was not killed. The primary buyer of 4D meat is the pet food induustry. If you use a premium brand of dog food, you fed some to your pet today.

My farmer friend's husband had duties out of town so I volunteered to help pick up a load of beef from a slaughterhouse to take to her farm, a ton in all. We got a little tour of the facility inculding the "kill" floor where several carcasses were being cut up by workers with electric chainsaws suspended from overhead racks. The meat was loaded on pallets and rolled directly to the grinder and then directly into the freezer. From there, the meat was delivered to greyhound kennels, farms and dogfood manufacturers by refrigerated trucks.

To me, the most interesting part of the tour was meeting a USDA inspector. He was there taking samples of the brains of every cow to inspect for Mad Cow Disease. I thought it was especially interesting that they were inspecting for Mad Cow even though none of the meat at this facility was destined for human consumption.

You might also be interested to know that the USDA has mandated that charcoal chips are mixed in with 4D meat to render it unpalatable to human consumption. It seems that many people know that 4D meat is really no different than regular ground beef and found the cost at 20% of grocery store prices appealing.

[lovemygreys7]

What jcsperson said

As usual Martin - you have a way of relaying the truth in a clear and concise manner. Thanks.

[micki76]

Sighting figures won't make me believe one over the other. This GPL seems extreme (similar to PETA), but I do believe that much of their propaganda does happen to an extent. No, I've never been to a track, never been to a kennel. But! Aha there it is. But, I do believe that there's a huge facet of people out there that just don't care about animals. I believe there's a huge facet who just care about money, and what’s in it for them. We’ve all seen and heard about all the animal cruelty in the world, and I just see this as another opportunity for evil people to do their evil deeds. Not everyone, or perhaps even the majority involved in racing are cruel, killing dogs, or crating them for 20+ hours a day. BUT SOME ARE. Honestly, that's what matters to me. I don't go to AKC dogs shows, don't go to dog races, don't go to horse races. I've seen agility done, like many of our members, by companion animals who live in the home with their family and not in a kennel. I don't support any "sport" where animals are a commodity of any sort.

I would most likely be a vegetarian to a large degree if I could be, but I have a medical issue that limits my intake of fruits and vegetables and forces me to eat a larger portion of meats than I like.

[jcsperson]

Originally posted by micki76
Sighting figures won't make me believe one over the other. This GPL seems extreme (similar to PETA), but I do believe that much of their propaganda does happen to an extent. No, I've never been to a track, never been to a kennel. But! Aha there it is. But, I do believe that there's a huge facet of people out there that just don't care about animals. I believe there's a huge facet who just care about money, and what’s in it for them. We’ve all seen and heard about all the animal cruelty in the world, and I just see this as another opportunity for evil people to do their evil deeds. Not everyone, or perhaps even the majority involved in racing are cruel, killing dogs, or crating them for 20+ hours a day. BUT SOME ARE. Honestly, that's what matters to me. I don't go to AKC dogs shows, don't go to dog races, don't go to horse races. I've seen agility done, like many of our members, by companion animals who live in the home with their family and not in a kennel. I don't support any "sport" where animals are a commodity of any sort.

I'm sorry that the numbers aren't convincing to you. Anybody who has ever bred dogs knows that puppy mortality is a fact, yet GPL seems to be in complete denial about this.

Nobody is disputing that some people in the business don't do the best for their dogs after they are through racing. The evidence is pretty clear about that.

The essential question is whether greyhound racing is inherently bad or that the problems it has are the conduct of individuals. Stated differently; Is the entire concept bad because of the behavior of a minority of the individuals who engage in it? (Keep this question in mind as you read on.)

Some of the worst cases of misconduct, abuse, or neglect I've ever seen were from pet owners, the "companion animals who live in the home" you speak of. In fact, there is an AR adoption group in AZ that shows an emaciated, sore-ridden greyhound on the cover of its brochure and proceeds, through the next several pages, to hurl one accusation after another at greyhound racing. It is not until page 7 that one finds out that the greyhound in the picture was taken out of a home, not from a kennel or farm.

Hardly a day goes by when one doesn't see on the local or national news a story of animal abuse or neglect, whether it is cats, dogs, horses or what have you. Multiply what you see on local TV by every locale nationally and you begin to see the scope of the problem. These aren't racing greyhounds, but Pit Bulls, Labs, Rottweilers, kittens, etc., etc.

(Remember my question above.) If one applied the same criteria to pet ownership that ARA groups apply to dog racing, that some abuse requires banning the sport, then some abuse of companion animals requires banning pet ownership.

Philosophically, this is the ultimate goal of organizations like PETA and HSUS. In the end, they are trying to legislate morality on those who do right by their animals as much as those who don't.

[sherpayluvsgreys]

What I also find interesting is that when this same poll in conducted on a PET GREYHOUND forum, with members fairly well educated on the ins and outs of greyhound racing, the outcome is much different....

[guster girl]

Originally posted by jcsperson

(Remember my question above.) If one applied the same criteria to pet ownership that ARA groups apply to dog racing, that some abuse requires banning the sport, then some abuse of companion animals requires banning pet ownership.

Philosophically, this is the ultimate goal of organizations like PETA and HSUS. In the end, they are trying to legislate morality on those who do right by their animals as much as those who don't.

This was an incredible post to read, I'm really looking forward to seeing responses to this. Thanks for taking the time to post in here!