Westminster 2007- update pg 8 post112*REPLAY 2/13

[3GSDMom]

He does seem like a good man. From what I've read. Lol. I was actually hoping to meet him, but didn't see him when I was hanging around the GSD ring.

[.sarah]

A friend of mine's sister won BOB with her Bouviers des Flandres as well as 1st place in the group ring.



Ch Ace's Indelible Mark HT

[borzoimom]

He does seem like a good man. From what I've read. Lol. I was actually hoping to meet him, but didn't see him when I was hanging around the GSD ring.

Travis- you were seeing a show quality shepherd. They are different than your dog- sloping lay back ( the shoulder) flat muzzle like a wedge- deeper angulation with powerful hips, sloping top line for agiile back etc. Your baby is beautiful - but not show quality.. The shepherd should have the ability to just run or easily with powerful hind quarters and fluid back to clear a 6 foot or more obstacle...
I know its a different look than what you look at daily- but look at what is supposed to be in the breed- including the length of the back as a almost fluid working machine of motion.. I am sure you were quite surprised- but what you criticized is more what the breed is.. The breed has a serious form to function...

[3GSDMom]

I am fully aware of the differences between the different lines.
I still do not care for the American Showlines. I'm more into the working dogs, the ones that stay true or as close as possible to Von Stephanitz original plan for the Ultimate working dog. These showline dogs purely breed for Looks...which makes sense because they are Show dogs. They are perfect for what they were bred for...Showing. I wasn't questioning that, I was stating facts that I have learned from numerous breeders and others who work with the breed. As well as the countless hours of research I have put into the breed.
I also know that Travis isn't show quality. Nor do I want him to be. He resembles the working lines more (though I'm not sure of his exact lines, but Im pretty sure it is a mix of different lines).
I was simply answering the question about the angulation. American lines (and sometimes German Show lines) have extreme angulation. (Though that is not the case with all Showlines ofcourse). Working lines have very little angulation.
Don't mean to start an argument or debate, just trying to clear up my post.

ETA- Reread your post, The breed wasn't meant to have that extreme angulation though. No where in the original standard or any standard do I see that they were meant to be bred with that exagerated, over the top angulation.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

[borzoimom]

I am fully aware of the differences between the different lines.
I still do not care for the American Showlines. I'm more into the working dogs, the ones that stay true or as close as possible to Von Stephanitz original plan for the Ultimate working dog. These showline dogs purely breed for Looks...which makes sense because they are Show dogs. They are perfect for what they were bred for...Showing. I wasn't questioning that, I was stating facts that I have learned from numerous breeders and others who work with the breed. As well as the countless hours of research I have put into the breed.
I also know that Travis isn't show quality. Nor do I want him to be. He resembles the working lines more (though I'm not sure of his exact lines, but Im pretty sure it is a mix of different lines).
I was simply answering the question about the angulation. American lines (and sometimes German Show lines) have extreme angulation. (Though that is not the case with all Showlines ofcourse). Working lines have very little angulation.
Don't mean to start an argument or debate, just trying to clear up my post.

ETA- Reread your post, The breed wasn't meant to have that extreme angulation though. No where in the original standard or any standard do I see that they were meant to be bred with that exagerated, over the top angulation.

Mine were the top working lines in the US as well... Here is midas. one of the photos I have I use the most but as Dr.goodnow can tell you- tops he may be- there were many after and before him out of my lines. I had some of the top SCh111 etc and working shepherds in the country... And all looked the same...

[DrKym]

Whoa thats Midi my BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!

hehe I can call him that! he loved me! I am not going to weigh in on this thread much as
A) My only 2 shepherds were Michelles, and that was my choice as I knew and still do know many excellent breeders trainers and Handlers, (yes Jimmy Moses is one of em so are several others )
B) I still feel that a shepherd that cannot perform their function by gaining titles at both ends of their name are not worthy of breeding or showing. Both of mine did that. In spades.

Now understand this is my opinion, it isn't meant to upset or harrass anyone, because my rotties were held to the same standard. With several am/can/jap champs in my kennel, I think I did alright in that part of my life.

That being said, we all love our dogs for what ever reasons, coat colors eyes, what ever I dont care as long as they are loved, and I can say without a doubt....evey single dog here on PT is a champ in their own way to all of us.

Boy I miss the Midi boy though..............................Shell I want a copy of that pic.

Michelle years ago we won some and lost some against each other but we did have some FUN!

[borzoimom]

Whoa thats Midi my BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!

hehe I can call him that! he loved me! I am not going to weigh in on this thread much as
A) My only 2 shepherds were Michelles, and that was my choice as I knew and still do know many excellent breeders trainers and Handlers, (yes Jimmy Moses is one of em so are several others )
B) I still feel that a shepherd that cannot perform their function by gaining titles at both ends of their name are not worthy of breeding or showing. Both of mine did that. In spades.

Now understand this is my opinion, it isn't meant to upset or harrass anyone, because my rotties were held to the same standard. With several am/can/jap champs in my kennel, I think I did alright in that part of my life.

That being said, we all love our dogs for what ever reasons, coat colors eyes, what ever I dont care as long as they are loved, and I can say without a doubt....evey single dog here on PT is a champ in their own way to all of us.

Boy I miss the Midi boy though..............................Shell I want a copy of that pic.

Michelle years ago we won some and lost some against each other but we did have some FUN!

I never EVER BREED a dog without titles front and back! AND YEA- WE DID HAVE FUN!!!!

[3GSDMom]

All of the different GSD lines don't look the same though...
You can easily tell American Showlines from German Showlines and German and American Showlines from German Working Lines. You can tell the Czech lines from the other lines.

But I guess we can just agree to disagree here. I don't feel like participating in this discussion much anymore.

Beautiful dog by the way.

And I do agree that a GSD that is niether Sch3 or Ch titled should NOT be bred. However, I don't believe that they need both to be bred. If it is a Working line dog, it should be Sch3. If it is a Showline dog, it should have its Ch title.

My GSD is most certainly not Show Quality or from Showlines (or atleast not fully from Showlines), he does not and never will have his Ch. title. He won't be bred (Had him neutered about a year ago). Whether or not he gets any Schutzhund titles is still a little foggy. Im not sure if Schutzhund is the path I want to take with him. Does seem nice to try. Anyway, I do agree with you on the breeding. You should not breed a dog that hasn't proven to be Show Quality (and has been titled as such) or Working Quality (and again, has been titled).

[borzoimom]

Travis is a sweet boy- and obviously deeply loved. Its part of a breeders job to look past the loving pet- and follow the plan I talked about ..
And you are right about the different national lines and how they look.. Its strange in some ways you can know the basic lineage of a dog without even looking at the pedigree.. lol..

[3GSDMom]

Travis is a sweet boy- and obviously deeply loved. Its part of a breeders job to look past the loving pet- and follow the plan I talked about ..

Exactly Travboy is most definetly pet quality. I couldnt ask for more in a dog. He's perfect in my eyes (perhaps I'm a bit biased.... ) He has proven to be quite the working/competition dog though. Guess he's making up for his lack of Show Quality LoL

Anyway, I got a bunch of Borzoi pictures for you and a video clip Whenever I stop being lazy I'll post all of the Westminster pictures.

[borzoimom]

Show quality or not doesnt change how we feel about our pets. Hottie isnt show quality anymore as he has a wheel back now because of his condition- would I trade him???? HECK NOOO!!!

[DrKym]

All of the different GSD lines don't look the same though...
You can easily tell American Showlines from German Showlines and German and American Showlines from German Working Lines. You can tell the Czech lines from the other lines.

But I guess we can just agree to disagree here. I don't feel like participating in this discussion much anymore.

Beautiful dog by the way.

And I do agree that a GSD that is niether Sch3 or Ch titled should NOT be bred. However, I don't believe that they need both to be bred. If it is a Working line dog, it should be Sch3. If it is a Showline dog, it should have its Ch title.

My GSD is most certainly not Show Quality or from Showlines (or atleast not fully from Showlines), he does not and never will have his Ch. title. He won't be bred (Had him neutered about a year ago). Whether or not he gets any Schutzhund titles is still a little foggy. Im not sure if Schutzhund is the path I want to take with him. Does seem nice to try. Anyway, I do agree with you on the breeding. You should not breed a dog that hasn't proven to be Show Quality (and has been titled as such) or Working Quality (and again, has been titled).

well said and btw my cocker is spayed(and from MAJOR show lines,) but when I said both ends hun I also meant CD CDx etc, I think all dogs should be more than just a "pretty pup" if the are to be bred.
If not, then I am all for my guys being just another pretty face! Ask me I have 3 that are just that! wonderful amazing PETS, nothing fancy, nothing mind blowing, just my best friends.

[3GSDMom]

I wasn't meaning to say that a dog isn't any good if it isn't show quality. The internet is so hard to explain what you are trying to say sometimes LoL.

Being a person that appreciates a Working dog much more than a Showing dog, I'd be the last person to turn down a dog/re home a dog because it wasn't show quality. Show titles mean very little to me personally as I have no plans for showing or breeding. I do however have tons of working/sport competition plans for my GSD and any future GSDs.

Travis is my world. If I had wanted a Show quality pup, I would have gone to a Showline breeder. But I wanted a Working/Competition dog so I picked out my boy.

My statement about Travis not being show quality was my way of trying to make it clear that I wasn't basing the way GSDs should be off of the way Travis looks. I know he doesnt have the "ideal" look of a GSD. But he's got my ideal look.

[borzoimom]

I love the working shepherd too. Nothing can beat a good shepherd- nothing..

[DrKym]

And that is ALL that matters!