Terri Schiavo - so sad :(

[lizzielou742]

I feel this entire situation is just beyond sad. My grandfather starved/dehydrated to death basically, he had esophigeal (sp?) cancer and after it closed off his esophagus completely, it was downhill quickly from there. I think he lived about 14 days (maybe a little less) after he was able to stop getting fluids down, and all of those days he was basically semi-conscious and in a lot of pain. I was 20 at the time and he lived with us, I took care of him during the day while my dad was at work. I had to try to squirt liquid morphine down his throat twice a day for the pain, and in the last week or so he couldn't even get that down his throat. It was a very rough thing for me to go through; I can not even imagine what it was like for him. It was awful, and it was a fate I would not wish on anyone, whether they are a "vegetable" like Terri Schiavo or a person of normal abilities like my grandpa. It was miserable, truly truly miserable, I really can't even describe it. Because of my experience, I find it very hard to believe that Terri Schiavo is slipping away painlessly. Although her situation and my grandpa's are obviously very different, after seeing what I saw I cannot imagine that this is an easy and peaceful going for her at all.

As far as the decisions the courts have made - I haven't seen much of the info on this case. I've just caught the stories here and there on the news. But I would have to imagine that a judge in a case like this would carefully consider both sides and rule in the way he saw fit, which is the judge's job to do. I'm not qualified to form a complete opinion on whether or not she should be allowed to die because I don't know all the facts. I do think it's horrid that political parties of both sides are trying to use this case as their new "issue of the month" to sway people to their sides. That's just completely wrong and it makes me so angry.

This whole thing is just very heartwrenching for everyone involved. And I agree with you, chelsea, that there are a lot of crime problems people could be focusing their energy on instead. I do hope that this case encourages others to create wills and express their wishes to their loved ones, and maybe in that way some good can come of this in the end.

[Pam]

Lizzielou how heartwrenching for you and your grandfather. I am glad you were able to be there for him. (((hugs)))

I heard that now the pope is on a feeding tube but it is in his mouth. My father-in-law briefly had a feeding tube in his mouth after his stroke, as one side of his throat was paralyzed and he was unable to swallow. We were there visiting once and had to leave his room for a routine clearing out of his throat because a finite amount of food had been aspirated. Outside his room the sound was horrible. I am not a medical person and hope that maybe Deb or Sandra could check in and describe the pope's condition. If I understand GMA's report correctly this morning the pope does not have a living will.

[Logan]

Pam, the report I heard about the pope was that the tube was in his nose. I think I was watching Fox News at the time. That poor man has been through a lot, hasn't he?

LizzieLou, that is a horrible experience you had with your grandfather. I know that it must haunt you to this day. I am glad that you and your dad were able to be there with him, though. That had to bring some sense of comfort to him.

[Pam]

Logan, I didn't mean to say mouth, I meant nose as opposed to being inserted into the stomach. My FIL's was also in his nose. The thing that needs clearing up in my mind is how all of this is working out, with a tube in his nose and the one in his throat to enable him to breathe. It sounds to me like a lot of tubes in very little space. I am showing my medical ignorance I know.

[Luvin Labs]

Originally posted by tortuga55
I heard the husband is going to have her obtopsied when she dies to quote "prove to the media how saverly brain damaged she was." She is not dead yet and he talks as if she is. When my grandfater died it took weeks to talk as if he was really gone. Why does he feel he has to prove that his decision to kill her was the right one. If he believes he is right why prove it to everyone. Maybe he wants to prove he was right to himself?

Tortuga, I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather, but was he in such a state as Terri, for fifteen years? Michael had seven years of fighting to rehabilitate her (and ultimatly finding out there is no chance of recovery) until it was decided to remove the feeding tube for the first time.

As for the parents, they were all too happy to want a piece of her money when Michael followed through with a lawsuit on her behalf, and had a fit when it all goes to Terri's care and her choice.

Since I don't have a daughter/son, I'll use another relative as an example. If my relative would be in a state such as Terri, finding out her husband fought for seven years for rehabilitation and various doctor consults and finding them all the same, I would at least have the decency to let the person who knows her more than I do make that ultimate decision. I would NOT be blindly seeing something that doesn't happen consistently as "her reacting to me" as Terri's parents have. IMWO I feel they are being selfish as to want her like that this whole time.

I give props to Michael for requesting the autopsy and putting up with slanderous BS from people who aren't involved in the case, though I feel no matter what the outcome will be some people will twist it around to their own goals.

As for Jesse, he's just another political figure wanting to pop his two cents worth and fifteen minutes of fame into this case that should have NEVER gone to the FL Supreme Court.

[Luvin Labs]

Originally posted by Buddy Blaze Lover
Did anyone see that talk by that lady who had something like the same thing that Terri has, and came out of it?? There IS hope, if people will just give her a chance!!

Who are you talking about here?

Thanks

Edit: Did some lookying

IF you are talking about Kate Adamson... then:

1. TS is missing the important parts of her brain whereas KA is not. Don't compare TS today to KA at 5 years.

2. The timeline of KA's ordeal states 70 days before her feeding tube was removed for the first time when her digestive system failed (and reinserted 9 days afterwards when she could finally eliminate waste again). Well at 70 days, everyone agrees that MS was aggressively helping TS in any way he could, sparing no expense. Did KA continue in her paralytic state for 4 years? Did KA persist without improvement for as long as MS gave TS agressive help? He helped her for a LONG TIME (seven years at least).

3. You need to compare and contrast a brain stem stroke (KA) with heart attack and oxygen deprivation (TS).

In that same state a little girl was RAPED AND MURDERED by a sick subhuman being that should have been in jail instead of out stalking little children.

It is sad that people are more worried about Terri instead of what that sick monster did to that child... Hopefully he'll be the prisons butt boy till the day he dies.

[tatsxxx11]

Pam, feeding via an NG tube, or naso gastric tube, was the common way of administering supplemental feedings prior to the more commonly used percutaneous feeding tube. (Surgically implanted through the abdomen into the stomach, as with Terri Schiavo) A naso gastric tube is a flexible, plastic tube, very small in diameter, not more than perhaps 1/4". With the patient fully awake, it is passed through the nose, down the throat, passing down the esophagus into the stomach. It does not interfere with the patient's ability to breath or speak, whatsoever. A breathing tube (ET or endotracheal tube) is inserted into the trachea (not the esophagus, which leads to the GI tract) via the nose, mouth or via a small incision in the neck. The NG tube is commonly used to drain or "pump" the stomach, as in overdoses, keep it empty after surgery, to keep a patient from vomiting orally as well as for administering nutrition for shorter, limited periods of time.

[RICHARD]

wow, what a passionate thread.....

As in the political threads we had moving about last year, there are two very different and opposing sides to this story.

I think you all deserve a HUGE pat on the back for keeping the topic moving and putting down your thoughts.

After some thought about this woman's plight I am still torn between the two sides.

IF MS truly cared about his wife, he would give her parents custody and go on with his life.

YET is it fair to keep a person in a state where there is no 'quality of life'????

I tend to lean in this direction..not to cruelly starve a person to death, but to give them a way out of this life that is dignified and peaceful.

-----------------------------------

If you have a thought about the issue I'll challenge you all to go to an extended care hospital, hospice or ICU and look at some of the patients there.

My bias holds true becuase of all the times I have passed a patient's room just to see, in real life, what the result of a terminal illness, traumatic head wound or some kind of incident where the higher brain functions of an individual are compromised.

It's not a pretty sight.


I personally would not want to be a burden to my family, friends or the caregivers assigned to keep me fed, clean and alive.

Life is living.

Terri Schiavo is alive, but is she living the way she dreamt of before she was incapacitated???

It's a tough question with no right answers...

Sometimes us mere humans have to play god.

[carole]

Even though there are much more horrible things like the crime mentioned about the little girl to discuss, I think this is a healthy discussion going on here , which has prompted many to think about making a living will, or to make their wishes known to members of their family, so I can only see this as a positive thread, and I don't see any reason why we should not be spending time here doing just that.

Whether Terri's situation is worse or better than this poor wee girl really is not the discussion going on here, I certainly see no harm in talking about it., it doesn't make Terri less important,because a crime has not been committed IMO.

There was a recent Tv programme which I missed, but was told about , this concerned a NZ woman who clearly had a similar situation to Terri's and did come out of it, I do not know all the details, but she is obviously campaigning for Terri to beable to Live, through her own personal experience, she also stated that there was pain for her, so we do have to wonder just how much these doctors know when they say Terri is in no pain.

[Luvin Labs]

But the other girl's ( Kate Adamson?) situation is different...

KA has her brain, terri's is almost gone

when KA was taken off the feeding tube, she began responding on her own, terri's responses are for her kidneys to fail

two to three weeks after reinsertion of KA's tube, her doctors evaluated her and noticed she was aware, blinking, with terri she's been in that state for years, doctors state she 'responds' inconsistently, what would have gotten a reaction 10 minutes ago they cannot repeat that action again.

KA was in that state for a short time, terri's been in that state for over ten years

three months after KA's reinsertion of her feeding tube, she can talk with her doctors, terri's had hers removed three times and reinserted twice, with NO reaction from her

both their cases are different.

Edit: was looking for the NZ woman's name but found a male here's the site:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3225741a11,00.html

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by carole
Whether Terri's situation is worse or better than this poor wee girl really is not the discussion going on here, I certainly see no harm in talking about it., it doesn't make Terri less important,because a crime has not been committed IMO.

Well put, Carole. I was thinking the same thing only having a harder time putting my thoughts into words.

[tortuga55]

People who abanden there pets to starve to death think they are better of dead (although in a meaner way), and they get thrown in jail. Why is it ok to starve a person to death. If he is so adement about her not wanting to live why not move her to a state where you can give fatally ill people leathal injections? It would still be wrong but less painful and a whole lot faster.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by tortuga55
If he is so adement about her not wanting to live why not move her to a state where you can give fatally ill people leathal injections?

There is no such place. Euthanasia is illegal in all 50 states.

[tatsxxx11]

For now at least, assisted suicide is legal in Oregon. Oregon voters have twice passed a "Right's challenge to the law. The Supreme Court of the U.S. has now agreed to hear the case, following John Ashcroft's/Bush administration's challenge to the law.

Over the past 6 years, 171 people in Oregon have legally obtained lethal doses of medication from drs., following review of their conditions, to terminate their lives in light of terminal illness.



Oregon's right to die law

[moosmom]

I personally would not want to be a burden to my family, friends or the caregivers assigned to keep me fed, clean and alive.

Life is living.

Terri Schiavo is alive, but is she living the way she dreamt of before she was incapacitated???

It's a tough question with no right answers...

Sometimes us mere humans have to play god.

RICHARD,

You said it PERFECTLY!!!!!