Dog Races

**dukedogsmom** · 10-25-2004, 07:31 PM

I am so sick of the drama around here lately. It's really getting old.

**7up** · 10-25-2004, 07:40 PM

I can't believe you guys lasted this long!

Jay

**guster girl** · 10-25-2004, 07:54 PM

This thread has actually improved and, appears to be (at least for the time being) an intelligent conversation. I think the drama, at least in this particular thread, has dispersed. Just my opinion, though.

**guster girl** · 10-25-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by 7up
I can't believe you guys lasted this long!

Jay

It actually improved when the greyhound owners from Grey Talk came onboard. Again, just my opinion.

**jcsperson** · 10-25-2004, 08:05 PM

Hi everybody. This is my first post here...

Before addressing any issues, I want to introduce myself to everyone. My name is Martin Roper. I'm a small-time racing greyhound owner and long-time pet owner. I'm not a trainer or farmer---my expertise in greyhounds is mostly in the area of greyhound pedigrees and breeding. I am on the staff of the world's largest breed database, http://www.greyhound-data.com/index.htm. My work in the field is accessed by breeders across the U.S. and even overseas. I am very closely affiliated with a nearby greyhound farm for which I make many of the breeding decisions.

My visit here was prompted by a visit to GreyTalk by several PTers recently. Some have come back here and reported that we are saying that they know "nothing," or are "ignorant" and "stupid." What they failed to reveal was their own behavior over there. Most posted anonymously, so it's hard to say who said it, but one PTer proclaimed him/herself to be "completely educated" in greyhound racing and proceeded to rattle off a litany of fallacies. Considering that there are greyhound trainers, farmers, breeders and adoption reps who have decades of experience in the breed, you can only imagine what kind of reaction that got.

Let me be the first to admit that I was the one who used the term "ignorant." If one looks in the dictionary one will find that it means, "lacking education or knowledge," or "unaware or uninformed." The statements made by many of the "guests" over there, and indeed some members over here, clearly show a lack of knowledge of the facts.

I see many of my GT friends (even you, Jay) have done a fine job representing greyhounds in a very factual manner. The truth is that those who represent the breed can be better custodians of greyhounds. What some people on the lunatic fringe of the AR/ARA world are saying, however, hurls the most outrageous accusations at greyhound racing. Judging by some of the posts here, a lot of that seems to have stuck with people whose only source of knowledge is "a guy I met who has greys who has no reason to lie" or "a web site about greyhounds."

I hear at length the term "the racing industry" bantered around like there is some single entity, some CEO or board of directors, some oligarchy of corporations that "runs the show." The truth is that there are some 400 kennel owners, 400 farmers, hundreds of trainers, and 3,000 NGA members who act as individuals. Each of them is responsible for his or her own behavior.

The breeding and raising of Greyhounds is regulated by the NGA. They are the most tightly regulated dog breed on earth. Farms are regularly inspected by the NGA. Farms found to be deficient can be fined, suspended or even shut down. Egregious violations are met with a lifetime ban from the NGA. I invite comparison with the AKC to see if similar standards are enforced.

Once the dogs are at the track, they come under the scrutiny of the State Gaming Commissions. Kennels and tracks are regularly inspected and the dogs are randomly checked for illegal substances.

Add in the scrutiny of the ARA crowd and the compliant press that hangs upon their every word, and greyhound racing has a light shone on it like few areas in the dog world.

It might interest some of you that I started out adopting a dog from and volunteering for an AR group. I raised $1,000s for them and relayed what they told me far and wide. Without having seen greyhound racing with my own two eyes I had nothing to go on other than what they told me.

It's been quite a journey. A couple visits to a track ("nice---nothing really scary here") to a kennel ("hey---this is nicer than my HS football locker-room!), to a farm (you mean, these pups get to stay with their moms until three months of age and then stay together as a litter 'til 12 months instead of getting jerked out at 8 weeks to live with a human family?").

Pardon my pride here, but greyhounds are the most carefully bred canines on the planet. Their bloodlines go back to the 1700s. They are bred to a performance standard, not one of appearance. Unlike its AKC cousin, of which less than 200 are whelped per year and are grotesquely inbred, racing greyhounds are bred in sufficient numbers to keep the gene pool diverse and healthy for the forseeable future.

Rather than go back and debunk, one by one, all the previously posted errors, I invite you to ask questions and my fellow greyhound enthusiasts will try to answer them as clearly as possible.

Long, I know, but thanks for reading.

**guster girl** · 10-25-2004, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by jcsperson
Hi everybody. This is my first post here...

Long, I know, but thanks for reading.

Welcome to Pet Talk, Martin. I read your posts in Grey Talk, and, posted a few myself, and, I hope that I came across as, at the very least, open minded and tactful. I used the name "guster girl" on all occassions, maybe you'll remember me.

I have enjoyed reading your post here and hope that you'll stay around.

**aly** · 10-25-2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by GreyhoundDaddy
Look, nobody in the industry is saying that there arent imperfections. They freely admit it. And by all accounts, they are trying to rectify it. People are encouraged to report things to the NGA if they appear to run amok of guidelines.

Anyway, I'd like to strongly urge you all to take a look at that link I provided in my previous post.. And you tell YOURSELF that those pups aren't getting love, attention, playtime, socialization. Read the story of the night of their birth and tell yourself that they arent given the best possible care available... I think you'll find your eyes might open up a bit.

I'm confused. I said that I know there are a lot of racers/breeders who are very well cared for ... and that I was concerned about the ones who aren't. Are you just looking for an argument or did you seriously miss that? I am NOT being sarcastic here. I just thought I was making myself as clear as possible saying that I know you guys love and care for your dogs and that there are good racers out there.

**Kfamr** · 10-25-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by aly
I'm confused. I said that I know there are a lot of racers/breeders who are very well cared for ... and that I was concerned about the ones who aren't. Are you just looking for an argument or did you seriously miss that? I am NOT being sarcastic here. I just thought I was making myself as clear as possible saying that I know you guys love and care for your dogs and that there are good racers out there.

I think this has been said many times yet they fail to see it each time, or just don't want to see it.

I wish this thread would just be locked so we could get on with our "NORMAL PT."

**jcsperson** · 10-25-2004, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Kfamr
I wish this thread would just be locked so we could get on with our "NORMAL PT." [/B]

For the most part the tone here is quite civil right now and there is an opportunity for a large number of people to learn something about this magnificent breed.

**GreyhoundDaddy** · 10-25-2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Kfamr
I think this has been said many times yet they fail to see it each time, or just don't want to see it.

I wish this thread would just be locked so we could get on with our "NORMAL PT."

if it bothers you to get educated, quit opening the thread.. I dont believe anyone's holding a gun to yuor head

**guster girl** · 10-25-2004, 08:27 PM

If this thread does get locked, I'd like to ask that the greyhound owners not leave Pet Talk. I don't know if that would be enough to make someone leave, but, I just wanted to say that just in case. If this thread wasn't going to be deleted when it was just people bickering, it most definitely shouldn't be now. It's actually a civil thread, now.

**Kfamr** · 10-25-2004, 08:28 PM

I NEVER said that this thread wasn't civil, nor did I say that I didn't want to learn anything.
It just seems like everyone is repeating themselves over and over again which isn't needed.

We all understand that there are good greyhound owners/racers/etc. We have known that from the get-go.
There's nothing more that needs to be said, and I'd honestly like for this thread to be dropped and for all of you newbies to just contribute to the rest of PT instead of just hanging around here.

**GreyhoundDaddy** · 10-25-2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by aly
I'm confused. I said that I know there are a lot of racers/breeders who are very well cared for ... and that I was concerned about the ones who aren't. Are you just looking for an argument or did you seriously miss that? I am NOT being sarcastic here. I just thought I was making myself as clear as possible saying that I know you guys love and care for your dogs and that there are good racers out there.

One shouldn't presume to think every post is directed at him/herself.

**guster girl** · 10-25-2004, 08:31 PM

I know I'm interested in hearing more of the other side, and, I think Aly's questions should keep coming, too. It's an interesting topic, and, as long as it stays civil, I think there's a lot more to be said from both sides.

**aly** · 10-25-2004, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by GreyhoundDaddy
One shouldn't presume to think every post is directed at him/herself.

It seemed like you were responding to one of my posts even though you didn't quote it. I think instead of agreeing to disagree, you and I are disagreeing to agree! Sheesh!