Dog Races

[Perfectweather*]

Perhaps I can help with some of your questions......

Puppys on the farm get a lot of attention - afterall, they are puppies and the future of the breed..........Everyday the people or kennel hands or whatever you want to call them feed and water the dogs, clean the runs......There is much interaction on the farm between dogs and humans - since the runs must be weeded along the fence line, fences mended and houses cleaned and re-bedded. Living on a dog farm in the middle of nowhere offers limited entertainment............you make close friends of your dogs.

I would say the least amount of time humans interact with the dogs is when they are in the long runs - from the age of 6 months to say 10 months when they begin lead training and easy, light lure training. Based on my experience, and weighing about 110 pounds, they are just to strong and rowdy to spend much time with...........they cause danger to humans and themselves.

Once they are moved in the kennel training begins in earnest and they are with humans most of the time. They are fed one on one and turned out in small groups four or more times a day. They are handled atleast three times a week for morning work-outs and training. They are handled and spoken to like normal pet dogs and by this time everyone has a name and knows it.........

During turnouts - or group airings - humans are present at all times to prevent trouble among dogs - usually they stand in the middle of the pen and are surrounded by dogs..........

Greyhound pups bound for the track are trained in the art of leash walking just as any other dogs are. Greyhounds should be able to walk on a lead since much of their time at the track and in the track environment depends on them being able to be handled on a leash (we call them leads) in front of a crowd and in most situations. Most greyhounds are excellent leash walkers.

Having spent 25 years training and working with greyhounds, I tend to disagree with your last statement. Greyhounds are amazing amimals because they CAN come from a working environment and easily make the transition to a home animal. They are already on a good schedule which they are used to, they are used to walking on leads and with humans, they are used to being with other dogs and are very social...........They are smart and quick to learn.......attributes which make them so adaptable in the home or at the kennel....

And lastly,yes, they get "real leash walks". Walking is one of the best forms of exercise - dogs are worked for a variety of reasons and one of everyone's favorites is simply taking them for a walk.....while trotting is a dogs natural gait, walking exercises the muscles in the shoulders, hind quarters and neck and back. It's good for humans too!!!

[aly]

Originally posted by Perfectweather*


Having spent 25 years training and working with greyhounds, I tend to disagree with your last statement. Greyhounds are amazing amimals because they CAN come from a working environment and easily make the transition to a home animal. They are already on a good schedule which they are used to, they are used to walking on leads and with humans, they are used to being with other dogs and are very social...........They are smart and quick to learn.......attributes which make them so adaptable in the home or at the kennel....

I didn't say they are all under socialized and I didn't mean to imply that. I just meant that people do jump to conclusions about the ones who are. Although I am not an expert on the racing industry, I do know the breed very well. I have to agree that they are wonderful, graceful, and sweet as pie.

[7up]

The only area where greyhounds lack socialization is with different breeds, large and small dogs, cats, birds, various types of people, big and small, kids, old folks, whatever, along with all the things in the outside world that are an important part of habituation in puppies, while their brain is developing.

Most greyhounds are wonderfully socialized with other greyhounds and with people when they have enought time to devote to them.

Greyhounds tend to be a little aloof and many of them are genetically shy. Some are also spooks. The shy greyhounds are probably the ones that are most effected by the lack of socialization I mentioned above. While the adjustment perioid from track to home is natural and takes a little time to acclimate to, a good number of greyhounds have more than the usual amount of difficulty dealing with the outside world without a lot of stress. Some can take months or years to lose their fears. Most of them do improve with time but will always have problems with certain things they encounter day to day.

I believe the lack of socialization in these greyhounds in particular, is what causes them so much trouble. But even then, they are such love bugs and courageous souls that they steal your heart away just like all the rest and they do manage just fine.

It is amazing that most greys make the adjustment so easily, considering the change in their environment and whatever other factors that may effect it.

Jay

[7up]

"Farm" is a very appropriate word because greyhounds are categorized as livestock animals.

Jay

[Perfectweather*]

Originally posted by aly
I didn't say they are all under socialized and I didn't mean to imply that. I just meant that people do jump to conclusions about the ones who are. Although I am not an expert on the racing industry, I do know the breed very well. I have to agree that they are wonderful, graceful, and sweet as pie.

Yes, people do. People who take an uneducated stance on any issue are somewhat prone to mistakes about said issue.............

One very important fact that must be remembered. A retired track greyhound has spend his entire life - every waking moment with many of his own kind and humans he has come to know and love.............His transition from the farm to the kennel is traumatizing to him - leaving his family of humans for the unknown. He adapts quickly since his routine is all to familiar and his handlers know what he wants and what he expects.

When you take a retired racer from his "track" environment and place him in a home he is lost, confused and totally alone. People who adopt are sometimes so in love and so proud of their dog they want to show them off to everyone right away - perhaps is the dog acts shy or unsure it is because he is....................

Human needs sometimes get in the way of "dog" logic.

[7up]

By the way, I have one of the shy ones I was telling you all about. I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. He has just about the best manners I have ever seen in a dog and he learns very quickly what to do in order to be a very"good boy".

He just amazes me. I have had him for over 2 years and his stress continues to lessen with each and every day. It is so heartwarming to see him begin to enjoy things for the first time, like smelling things when we walk or holding his head up and looking around instead of being intent on going straight back home. I often wonder what he will be like years from now.

Jay

[GreyhoundDaddy]

Well, now.. I'm one who after being seen in one thread is knwn by a member here as one who "shoots off his mouth"... Oh yeah... I'm the guy who was told by one of your memebers to "go hump your dog"

Man, I love people like you. The kind I'd see in person, give you a wry little smile and keep walking on by.

That said... Care to see some pics of puppies? I've gone and done something that's becoming more and more popular within the greyhound world. It's called "pre-adoption". Meaning, I got to know a breeder/trainer and when she had a broody that had a litter, I fell in love with one of her pups. The breeder/trainer told me that once the pup was done racing ... it could be 3-5 years from now... that the day she comes off the track, she's mine. I'm not the only person, nor am I the first and I certainly wont be the last to go this route. I think you'll find that the people that do this, are commited to these new babies.

Now, I'm going to post a link to a homepage I made for the pup I've pre-adopted that has some pics on teh page itself, the story of her litters birth and some other links including her photo album. All I can do is ask that you look at it with an open mind and realize that everything one reads isn't necessarily so.

Ice Princess's Page

[7up]

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

I wouldn't call it a problem but greyhounds do not usually know how to play (with stuffies for instance), but they sure do manage to develop this talent with little or no help from us. Just supply the stuffy.

Sometimes your existing greyhound will teach the new one and that's always cute to watch.

It also takes the a little time before they will take a treat from your hand. Not like they are afraid, but more because they don't know what to do.

Jay

[aly]

Originally posted by GreyhoundDaddy
Well, now.. I'm one who after being seen in one thread is knwn by a member here as one who "shoots off his mouth"... Oh yeah... I'm the guy who was told by one of your memebers to "go hump your dog"

Man, I love people like you. The kind I'd see in person, give you a wry little smile and keep walking on by.

That said... Care to see some pics of puppies? I've gone and done something that's becoming more and more popular within the greyhound world. It's called "pre-adoption". Meaning, I got to know a breeder/trainer and when she had a broody that had a litter, I fell in love with one of her pups. The breeder/trainer told me that once the pup was done racing ... it could be 3-5 years from now... that the day she comes off the track, she's mine. I'm not the only person, nor am I the first and I certainly wont be the last to go this route. I think you'll find that the people that do this, are commited to these new babies.

Now, I'm going to post a link to a homepage I made for the pup I've pre-adopted that has some pics on teh page itself, the story of her litters birth and some other links including her photo album. All I can do is ask that you look at it with an open mind and realize that everything one reads isn't necessarily so.

Ice Princess's Page

I'm sorry that I offended you because it wasn't my intention.

What I've been trying to say all along (and I'm not sure I've done a good job of it) is that I know you guys care about your dogs. I know there are good breeders and racers who care. I am in no way trying to deny or ignore those facts. It just hurts my heart to know about the ones who don't care though. Just as it hurts my heart to know of the bad breeders of ANY other breed out there.

[GreyhoundDaddy]

Look, nobody in the industry is saying that there arent imperfections. They freely admit it. And by all accounts, they are trying to rectify it. People are encouraged to report things to the NGA if they appear to run amok of guidelines.

I dont purport to know ANYTHING about the industry, just what I've read and investigated myself. And just as in any other facet of life, there are those that go about doing things the right way... no matter the expense... and those that do things improperly. It's a asd fact of life that people can be broken down like this, but, it's unfortunately true.

I've had my hound since February 27, 2004. Like I said, in that short time there's no way I can possibly know very much about the dogs themselves or the racing industry. But, I've taken it upon myself to not take things at face value... to delve deeper in to the "problem" so to speak and educate MYSELF. Which is why I listen to both sides of people's arguments. When I first was looking into adoption...and yes.. ADOPTION...I came across GPL's site and was disgusted at the images they posted. I gues people will do anything for shock value (i.e. pro-lifers holding graphic posters at abortion clinics) to try to get a point across. What it did for me was to force me to go deeper than accepting one side's perspective on things.

As far as the incessant posts about "we're getting bashed over on GT".... nah.. just more exaggeration. As I already noted, I called for the person to be banned from both sites who initiated this whole mess.


Dont sweat my feelings ... Messageboards are not where I get the most out of my life. Say whatever you wish, ask whatever yuo wish.. but, be prepared for answers that you may not like

Anyway, I'd like to strongly urge you all to take a look at that link I provided in my previous post.. And you tell YOURSELF that those pups aren't getting love, attention, playtime, socialization. Read the story of the night of their birth and tell yourself that they arent given the best possible care available... I think you'll find your eyes might open up a bit.

[dukedogsmom]

I am so sick of the drama around here lately. It's really getting old.

[7up]

I can't believe you guys lasted this long!

Jay

[guster girl]

This thread has actually improved and, appears to be (at least for the time being) an intelligent conversation. I think the drama, at least in this particular thread, has dispersed. Just my opinion, though.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by 7up
I can't believe you guys lasted this long!

Jay

It actually improved when the greyhound owners from Grey Talk came onboard. Again, just my opinion.

[jcsperson]

Hi everybody. This is my first post here...

Before addressing any issues, I want to introduce myself to everyone. My name is Martin Roper. I'm a small-time racing greyhound owner and long-time pet owner. I'm not a trainer or farmer---my expertise in greyhounds is mostly in the area of greyhound pedigrees and breeding. I am on the staff of the world's largest breed database, http://www.greyhound-data.com/index.htm. My work in the field is accessed by breeders across the U.S. and even overseas. I am very closely affiliated with a nearby greyhound farm for which I make many of the breeding decisions.

My visit here was prompted by a visit to GreyTalk by several PTers recently. Some have come back here and reported that we are saying that they know "nothing," or are "ignorant" and "stupid." What they failed to reveal was their own behavior over there. Most posted anonymously, so it's hard to say who said it, but one PTer proclaimed him/herself to be "completely educated" in greyhound racing and proceeded to rattle off a litany of fallacies. Considering that there are greyhound trainers, farmers, breeders and adoption reps who have decades of experience in the breed, you can only imagine what kind of reaction that got.

Let me be the first to admit that I was the one who used the term "ignorant." If one looks in the dictionary one will find that it means, "lacking education or knowledge," or "unaware or uninformed." The statements made by many of the "guests" over there, and indeed some members over here, clearly show a lack of knowledge of the facts.

I see many of my GT friends (even you, Jay) have done a fine job representing greyhounds in a very factual manner. The truth is that those who represent the breed can be better custodians of greyhounds. What some people on the lunatic fringe of the AR/ARA world are saying, however, hurls the most outrageous accusations at greyhound racing. Judging by some of the posts here, a lot of that seems to have stuck with people whose only source of knowledge is "a guy I met who has greys who has no reason to lie" or "a web site about greyhounds."

I hear at length the term "the racing industry" bantered around like there is some single entity, some CEO or board of directors, some oligarchy of corporations that "runs the show." The truth is that there are some 400 kennel owners, 400 farmers, hundreds of trainers, and 3,000 NGA members who act as individuals. Each of them is responsible for his or her own behavior.

The breeding and raising of Greyhounds is regulated by the NGA. They are the most tightly regulated dog breed on earth. Farms are regularly inspected by the NGA. Farms found to be deficient can be fined, suspended or even shut down. Egregious violations are met with a lifetime ban from the NGA. I invite comparison with the AKC to see if similar standards are enforced.

Once the dogs are at the track, they come under the scrutiny of the State Gaming Commissions. Kennels and tracks are regularly inspected and the dogs are randomly checked for illegal substances.

Add in the scrutiny of the ARA crowd and the compliant press that hangs upon their every word, and greyhound racing has a light shone on it like few areas in the dog world.

It might interest some of you that I started out adopting a dog from and volunteering for an AR group. I raised $1,000s for them and relayed what they told me far and wide. Without having seen greyhound racing with my own two eyes I had nothing to go on other than what they told me.

It's been quite a journey. A couple visits to a track ("nice---nothing really scary here") to a kennel ("hey---this is nicer than my HS football locker-room!), to a farm (you mean, these pups get to stay with their moms until three months of age and then stay together as a litter 'til 12 months instead of getting jerked out at 8 weeks to live with a human family?").

Pardon my pride here, but greyhounds are the most carefully bred canines on the planet. Their bloodlines go back to the 1700s. They are bred to a performance standard, not one of appearance. Unlike its AKC cousin, of which less than 200 are whelped per year and are grotesquely inbred, racing greyhounds are bred in sufficient numbers to keep the gene pool diverse and healthy for the forseeable future.

Rather than go back and debunk, one by one, all the previously posted errors, I invite you to ask questions and my fellow greyhound enthusiasts will try to answer them as clearly as possible.

Long, I know, but thanks for reading.