Dog Races

[Jamieejo85]

Originally posted by Kfamr
Cute doggies everyone!


I'm completely sick of the way GT has been talking aobut Pet Talk.

I guess we're all trolls now.

Kay, can you post a link so I can read the posts? I have been gone for a couple days..such a nice thread to come back to I tried clicking a link you posted back on page 4 or 5 and it didn't work thanks
~jamie

[Kfamr]

Originally posted by Jamieejo85
Kay, can you post a link so I can read the posts? I have been gone for a couple days..such a nice thread to come back to I tried clicking a link you posted back on page 4 or 5 and it didn't work thanks
~jamie

I believe all of the threads have been deleted now.
It just seems like a few of them think PT is some evil place because of this thread.
I am glad to see a majority of their members have ventured out of this to see the TRUE Pet Talk, though.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

Originally posted by Kfamr
I am glad to see a majority of their members have ventured out of this to see the TRUE Pet Talk, though.

So am I

[zaylagrey]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I've been a member of Greytalk for about six months. and there is a hand full of people there that can get very argumentive. I try to understand it this way, the reason I believe this is such a passionate subject for some of these people is the racing industry is their livelyhood.Generations of families have raised these dogs and trained them. It would be like someone saying what you do for a living is horrible, but you feel there is nothing wronge with it. Of course you'll get defensive about it. There are some there that are over the top to a point of insulting, thats why I don't get involved in those topics there, it has happened to me once before. Then there are some that are very interested in hearing your point of view and answering your questions. About your question of farms, all I know is the ones we deal with as a adoption group. I'm sure there is someone here in the industry that will be more than happy to explain better than I. I do know that there is allot of selected breeding in the process, that is why for a large breed dog allot of diseases have been bred out of their lines. I hope this helped. I do like it here.

Originally posted by aly
No one is scared. We like to try to remain as civil to each other as possible here. Sometimes that means ignoring certain posts that might spark some heated words. I read some of this individual's comments on your forum and while he likes to shoot off at the mouth, it is neither intimidating nor scary.

I understand why you guys were offended when first reading this thread. I am thrilled to see that so many of you ventured into other parts of the board and made introduction threads. This was just one "bad apple" thread among thousands of kind, warm, compassionate threads. I want to thank those that came and offered their opinions/ideas/beliefs without attacking anyone or calling names. It is much easier to have a discussion and learn new things when it is not clouded with juvenile name calling.

I hate to even think that there are "sides" to this in the first place. I think we all agree that Greyhounds love to run and are glad that they have an outlet for that. I think we all agree that there is good and bad in everything and that we should do what we can to help the poor Greyhounds who are stuck with the bad racing owners.

I am not against racing if the dogs are loved, well-cared for, and happy. I am against racing that entails abuse, neglect, and euthanizing the "losers".

I tried posting on the GT board about this and I was belittled because I don't own a Greyhound. I tried to explain my experience and was ripped apart. It was just by one person directly (although a few others said the same), but it left me feeling very hurt and bitter. Therefore, I couldn't listen to one thing this person said to me, valid points or not. I've been involved in rescue and dog behavior for over 6 years now. No, I am not an expert on Greyhounds, but I do know a lot. Just because I don't have a Greyhound doesn't mean one should assume I know nothing. And just because someone owns a Greyhound, it shouldn't be assumed that the person is an authority on them. I've met many an owner who knows absolutely nothing about the breed they have. I've also met many a person who knows more than me about the breeds I have, even though they don't own one themselves. I'm fully willing to admit when someone knows more than me. What they do or do not own has nothing to do with their knowledge.

Oh yeah, one thing I do have a problem with regarding racing are these "Greyhound farms". Please inform me on these (in a nice way). Since I do shelter work every day, the term farm gets to me. Why do you have to mass-produce these racing pups? Couldn't you adopt young Greyhounds from shelters or rescues to race them? Dogs are dying every single day while these farms are bringing more and more dogs into this world. These pups will need a home someday soon if their racing person doesn't keep them or euthanize them. If they are rehomed, then that means another dog in a shelter won't get a home and will die.

[guster girl]

Originally posted by Orangutango
So am I

Make that three.

[aly]

Originally posted by zaylagrey
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I've been a member of Greytalk for about six months. and there is a hand full of people there that can get very argumentive. I try to understand it this way, the reason I believe this is such a passionate subject for some of these people is the racing industry is their livelyhood.Generations of families have raised these dogs and trained them. It would be like someone saying what you do for a living is horrible, but you feel there is nothing wronge with it. Of course you'll get defensive about it. There are some there that are over the top to a point of insulting, thats why I don't get involved in those topics there, it has happened to me once before. Then there are some that are very interested in hearing your point of view and answering your questions. About your question of farms, all I know is the ones we deal with as a adoption group. I'm sure there is someone here in the industry that will be more than happy to explain better than I. I do know that there is allot of selected breeding in the process, that is why for a large breed dog allot of diseases have been bred out of their lines. I hope this helped. I do like it here.

You did help! Thank you very much for your kind response

And I'm so glad you like it here! It really is a great place! Just stay out of the political and religious discussions! Hehe

[guster girl]

Originally posted by zaylagrey
Of course you'll get defensive about it. There are some there that are over the top to a point of insulting

There are plenty of topics in here that get ugly like that too. What I don't understand, is how people think they are going to enlighten anyone by being hateful and calling them names. and, I'm not just saying the folks that are pro-racing talking down to people that are anti-racing or anti-racers thinking pro-racers are idiots or naive or whatever. I'm talking about all the topics that people are passionate about. You can be passionate and still get your point across, by giving facts supporting your beliefs and simply using a little tact. People seem to lack that frequently. I think that arguing/debating is a healthy thing to be involved in. It's when people start calling others stupid (for any reason), that things start going in reverse. It's like a magic time warp back to junior high. that's why this thread was so crappy to begin with. I like where it's going now, though.

[zaylagrey]

Thanks I'll make note of that..

[greysandmoregreys]

Originally posted by aly

Oh yeah, one thing I do have a problem with regarding racing are these "Greyhound farms". Please inform me on these (in a nice way). Since I do shelter work every day, the term farm gets to me. Why do you have to mass-produce these racing pups? Couldn't you adopt young Greyhounds from shelters or rescues to race them? Dogs are dying every single day while these farms are bringing more and more dogs into this world. These pups will need a home someday soon if their racing person doesn't keep them or euthanize them. If they are rehomed, then that means another dog in a shelter won't get a home and will die.

I will do my best to try and explain the greyhound farms. Farms being used for lack of a better word.

This may be long, so sit back, get a cup of coffee, and prop your feet up. I will try to cover from birth up until the point when they go to the race tracks.

Broods are normally kept in an area called a brood house. Just like a boarding kennel they have inside and outside runs. With carpet or some type of bedding to lay on inside with a doggie dog to go out.

The brood is bred, normally AI (artifical insemintion) she is then moved to the welping area of the kennel when she is due.
This area is similar to the brood house but it has a whelping box inside for the momma to have her pups. Most broods are monitered with video cameras or humans to make sure that there are no complications when she's read to give birth. Most owners are there when she gives birth.

The pups are normally moved from the mother when the mother deceides that the times is right.

The pups are then moved to a "puppy" area. Sometimes it's similar to the brood house and other times its to an outside run area that has a large dog hut, house, shelter which again is normally filled with some type of bedding. Hay, straw, something to that effect. During this time the pups play and romp with one another. Work out the pack order and all and all just be puppys.

Once they are around 6months old there moved to what is called long runs. Where there are normally 3 hounds per run. This is where the pups start learning to streatch there legs, build up muscle, the compete with one another by running up and down the fence line with the pups on the other sides. When they get tired they lay down and sleep, soak up the sun, or whatever they chose to do. These runs also have the huts,houses, shelters with bedding also.

At 12 months of age the pups are moved into the "racing/training" kennel which is where they learn about crating, collars, muzzles, turn outs, this is where the real training starts.

They are normally taken to sprint paths with other hounds from different litters. Most training consist of a whirly gig. Which is a long arm that has a stuffy, animal pelt, or something fun with which the pups will want to chase. I teaches them to run turns, because they have only really been in runs that they really don't make a full sweaping turn.

They then go on to the tracks where they learn to chase the mechanical lure. They start out with normally one or two other hounds. Again the compitition between the pups and also chasing that cool thing at the end of a pole. When they finish up the race most farmers give them a squeak toy or something fluffy to play with so they are rewarded for doing good. All the dogs get these not just the winner.

This track training normally goes on about 5 months. When they know what there doing is when the head to the real race tracks.

As far as feeding, worming, and vaccinations there all on set scheduals. Most feeding programs consist of meat, dry dog food, veggies, pasta, plus some type of vitamin supplement. Young pups are not fed raw meat.

Interesting point most farms and kennels will worm there dogs with Ivomec every month or every two months. So by doing this the greyhounds from these farms or from a race track will never have heartworms.

Hope I covered some of the questions you had. Why they are called farms I don't know. Maybe for a lack of better term>

[zaylagrey]

I knew someone who knew what they were talking about would step up to the plate. I even learned something.

[guster girl]

I think it sounds interesting. I mean, it doesn't sound like a puppy mill, which is what I think a lot of people were imagining. But, I could be wrong about that, too. It doesn't bother me, though, as it sounds like they are well taken care of. The description is very detailed, though, and, I personally thank you for it. They certainly get fed well.

[Cinder & Smoke]

Originally posted by greysandmoregreys
...
The pups are then moved to a "puppy" area. Sometimes it's similar to the brood house and other times its to an outside run area that has a large dog hut, house, shelter which again is normally filled with some type of bedding. Hay, straw, something to that effect. During this time the pups play and romp with one another. Work out the pack order and all and all just be puppys.

Once they are around 6 months old there moved to what is called long runs. Where there are normally 3 hounds per run. This is where the pups start learning to streatch there legs, build up muscle, the compete with one another by running up and down the fence line with the pups on the other sides. When they get tired they lay down and sleep, soak up the sun, or whatever they chose to do. These runs also have the huts,houses, shelters with bedding also.

At 12 months of age the pups are moved into the "racing/training" kennel which is where they learn about crating, collars, muzzles, turn outs, this is where the real training starts.

They are normally taken to sprint paths with other hounds from different litters. Most training consist of a whirly gig...

They then go on to the tracks
where they learn to chase the mechanical lure...

What do the Pups / Young Dogs get in the way of
"Human" Interaction??

How often (or what percentage of the day) do they receive the
"attention" of a Human?
Does anyone "talk" to them;
give them a pat on the head or a friendly *rub*;
do they ever get a real "Walk on a Leash"?

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

/s/ Phred
.

[7up]

Hi all. 7up here. The illusive poll linking lurker. LOL

Maybe I can add to the confusion with a slightly different viewpoint. I have been on GreyTalk for some time. I am not a fan of greyhound racing and I make that very clear. There are others who feel the same way and we have all grown some pretty thick skin as you might well imagine by now.

I want to let you know that even us greyhound owners have been accused of ignorance for our unsavory opinions because we
either:

1. have not been to a race, or
2. have not been to a kennel, or
3. the kennel we visited was not representative of most kennels, or
4. we lie like dogs (no pun intended).

Even if we meet the above criteria, it has been stated that we still cannot form an opinion without actually working in a kennel. I would venture to guess if we did that it would be the wrong kennel, not long enough or if all else fails, back to "we lied".

There have been blatent lies told in the past by actual anti-racing activists (that which we are not) This has created somewhat of a bitter attitude which you have undoubetdly already noticed. This is part of the reason they reacted to you all the way they did. They feel everyone believes only the lies and bases their opinion on that alone. They do not take into account the opinions you form with your own mind and you ability to give each story you hear the amount of weight deserves. They tend to take opinions too personal at times, as many of us do at some time or another

These are a very passionate bunch who have had some pretty hard knocks in the past and are just now beginning to make headway with public opinion. Not an easy thing to do when certain undeniable facts still exist, but that's another story all together.

I am only hoping to give you a little better idea of what is behind all of this hoopla so that you are not left with the uncertainty (or maybe even hurt feelings) that I think you have now. At least that's the way I read it.

Greyhound forums are generally (and understandably) moderated, so we have not always had the opportunity to hash things out with the racing folks, yet they are making a concerted effort to work with adoption and improve things within the industry. Although we have debated the same issues over and over again until blue in the face, we still continue to spend way too much time with each other. Probably because of the one thing we do have in common which, as you all know, can never be talked about enough.... our dogs (or pets, whatever the case may be). So that's why at any given time, you might find a fued going on at GreyTalk and you are more than welcome to join in the fun before the thread gets nixed. We love "new blood". LOL

I also want to say that these really ARE the good people in racing. I don't agree with them and they don't agree with me. I think the term for this is "agree to disagree" although we haven't succesfully managed to do that for any length of time. Maybe one day they will come around. LOL

What matters most to me is that we continue to work towards our common goal which is 100% greyhound adoption. I am sure you have already heard about that so I won't go into it.

By the way, I still want to answer K9soul's question about the racing situation in other countries. This is one of the areas I actually know something about LOL

"Jay" from GreyTalk

[aly]

Originally posted by Cinder & Smoke
What do the Pups / Young Dogs get in the way of
"Human" Interaction??

How often (or what percentage of the day) do they receive the
"attention" of a Human?
Does anyone "talk" to them;
give them a pat on the head or a friendly *rub*;
do they ever get a real "Walk on a Leash"?

Many Rescue Sites mention the problem that "typical" rescue Greys
"don't Know How to PLAY" and are fearful of almost any human.

/s/ Phred
.

I was curious about this as well. It sounds as though they get great basic care, but not socialization or interaction. Maybe if they were socialized more as puppies, people would stop thinking that a majority of them are abused. It is a common thing to mistake an under-socialized dog for an abused dog. Sometimes dogs cower away from loud noises, human hands, etc simply because they have not been exposed to them, not because they have been hit or yelled at.

After the explaination, it does sound like farm is the best word to describe what goes on. I guess I just have a problem with bringing so many dogs into this world when so many are dying in shelters and on the streets (not to mention the percentage that are euthanized after racing, whatever percentage that may be). I wish racing were a fun sport for the dogs, and not a means of gambling for the people. If it were for fun, then Greyhounds could be adopted from rescues or shelters to race instead of breeding dogs and leaving them in a kennel until they are a year old and ready to start training.

*edit* I know it is a fun sport for the dogs, but I meant to say I wish it was ONLY used for fun and not profit.

[sherpayluvsgreys]

Hello to you PTers and good to see my GT family as well! I find myself saddened as well as excited about this thread. I think, though, for greyhound owners, it offers a chance to help explain some things about greyhound adoption and the racing industry to those not familiar with it.

I think that greyhound owners are an extremely sensitive group of people. For the majority of retired racing greyhound owners, owning their first grey becomes the beginning of an end, so to speak. Many owners become completely engrossed in what greyhound ownership can mean. It's a life-altering experience to many.

There are so many dynamics to the greyhound. For many, there is the mind-blowing lineage for you to discover. Most greyhounds have family trees that will put most humans to shame. We have websites dedicated to greyhound genealogy and performance. The moment you learn that you can trace your grey's bloodline back to the 1800's, or you first view your grey's past performace lines, you are affected with an intense desire to learn more. Not only about your individual grey, but the industry from which they came.

While I'm only voicing my own opinion, I think most greyhound owners will tell you it's an on going eductional process with an overwhelming amount of information to absorb. People who have been in the industry for decades will tell you that they still learn everyday. I believe what strikes many new greyhound owners first and foremost is the gross abundance of propaganda out there concerning the life of the racing greyhound. Sensationalism at it's best - or worst. Take your pick.

Are there some undersirable sitations out there? Yes, just as there are with any breed. But these are becoming fewer and farther between. What is so exciting is that the greyhound world is in transition, and actually has been for quite some time. But you see, that doesn't make good reading, so that never makes the papers. It's a harsh reality that greyhound folks have sadly become quite accustomed to.

Increasing numbers of adoption groups and racing folks are coming together to fullfill the goal of 100% adoption. The key, we are all discovering, is that working with, instead of against, produces the best win/win situation for all involved. ESPECIALLY the greyhound.

My hope is, as a result of this thread, that non-greyhound people will take the time to learn about the racing greyhound, the industry, and greyhound adoption and form their own educated opinions... not on bias, but fact.

I look forward to browsing through your site, and sharing some of my own life with my two wonderful greyhounds!