Bush Expresses "Deep Disgust"

[Logan]

It wants me to sign in or register. Is it worth it, Gini, knowing that I am a staunch Republican???? Ha Ha!!!!

[gini]

Logan, I forwarded the page to you.............you decide

[Logan]

I got it. Since my mind is so feeble, Gini, I need to go back read why you posted this particular article, which I found to be very interesting.

[Lady's Human]

The pilot in the article is used as a reference to character in the newest version of the army leadership manual, which every leader, from buck Sgt on up, is required to read. What the article doesn't tell is that the Americal Div G-3, who is the operations officer (the person who issues operational orders to units) was Colin Powell. While powell was in no way shape or form responsible for the My Lai massacre itself, he did assist in the attempted coverup of the incident.

[lizbud]

The NYT article was very interesting. I read another today that
I found more interesting as it reminds us all of the long history
of Government's attempts at" Empire" building & it's consequences.


Splendid Little War; Long Bloody Occupation
Iraq, the US and an Old Lesson
By WILLIAM LOREN KATZ

Weapons of mass distruction, a slam-dunk war followed by a no-end-in-sight occupation? We've been here before when a century ago the U.S. first sent an army overseas to accomplish regime change and liberate a resource-rich land from tyranny.

It began in February, 1898 when an explosion sunk the U.S. battleship Maine in Havana harbor. Since Cubans lived under a cruel Spanish colonialism, a pro-war U.S. press felt free to claim that Spain unleashed a weapon of mass destruction, and to whip up "Remember the Maine" fever. No weapon was ever found -- it was a boiler explosion that sank the Maine -- and though Spain agreed to President McKinley's main demands, Congress declared war with a promise to free Cuba.

Secretary of State John Hay called it "a splendid little war" because in less than a hundred days the U.S. liberated 13 million people and 165,000 square miles of colonies from Puerto Rico to Guam and the Philippines, and with only 379 combat deaths. But disease and embalmed meat war profiteers sold to the Army killed another 5,462 U.S. soldiers.

Leading the hawks in 1898 was a young, flamboyant Teddy Roosevelt, an assistant secretary of the Navy who claimed war stimulated "spiritual renewal," and the "clear instinct for racial selfishness." Not a man to hide in the National Guard, TR personally led his "Rough Riders" at San Juan Hill, and returned from Cuba with one regret -- "there was not enough war to go around." No w he was riding to the White House.

For two years General Emilio Aguinaldo and his freedom-fighting guerilla army had fought Spain's cruel occupation fully ready to govern a free Philippines. But before he left for Cuba, TR sent Admiral George Dewey's U.S. fleet to Manila Bay where it sank the Spanish fleet. Dewey assured Aguinaldo the U.S. "had come to . . . free the Filipinos from the yoke of Spain." But U.S. troops landed on Luzon, prevented Aguinaldo from entering Manila, and Washington appointed a puppet government.

Filipinos first welcomed Americans as liberators. But in June when Aguinaldo issued a declaration of independence, the pro-war U.S. press began to demonize Aguinaldo, and a U.S. general told Congress that Filipinos who wanted freedom had "no more idea of its meaning than a shepherd dog."

President McKinley said he spent many sleepless nights agonizing about the Philippines until God told him to keep the islands and "uplift and civilize and Christianize them." The President called his program "benevolent assimilation." The influential San Franciso Argonaut was more candid: "We do not want the Filipinos. We want the Philippines. The islands are enormously rich, but unfortunately, they are infested with Filipinos."

A U.S. army of 70,000 [including 6,000 Black troops] was sent to pacify the islands and, as more than one white soldier said, "just itching to get at the niggers." General William Shafter told a journalist it might be necessary to kill half the population to bring "perfect justice" to the other half. After General Jack Smith promised to turn the Philippines into a "howling wilderness" most casualties were civilians. Smith defined the foe as any male or female "ten years and up," and told his soldiers: "I want no prisoners. I wish you to kill and burn; the more you kill and burn the better it will please me."

U.S. officers encouraged the use of torture, murder of prisoners, and massacre of villagers, including women and children. A Kansas soldier wrote "The country won't be pacified until the niggers are killed off like the Indians." Another white soldier reported brutal "sights you could hardly believe" and he reached this conclusion: "A white man seems to forget that he is human."

The U.S. had entered a quagmire. "The Filipino masses are loyal to Aguinaldo and the government he leads," conceeded U.S. General Arthur MacArthur. He thought the foe "needed bayonet treatment for at least a decade." His time assessment proved prophetic. In early 1901 a U.S. journalist concluded "that the Filipino hates U.S. . . permanent guerrilla warfare will continue for years." He reported endless guerilla attacks that took one or two U.S. lives at a time and created a "spirit of bitterness in the rank and file of the army." A U.S. Red Cross worker reported "American soldiers are determined to kill every Filipino in sight" and said he saw "horribly mutilated Filipino bodies."

In March, 1901 U.S. officers saw victory when Aguinaldo was captured, agreed to swear allegiance to the United States, and to persuade his officers to accept amnesty. But quagmires can sink fond hopes. Six months later guerillas on Samar attacked a U.S. garrison and massacred 45 U.S. officers and enlisted men with bolos and bare hands. The occupation's most shocking defeat exposed U.S. propaganda about a defeated foe and a easy occupation. The U.S. media comp ared Samar to General Custer at the Little Big Horn, pro-imperialist editors talked about being "hoodwinked," and The San Francisco Call reminded Americans "a conquered people" do not remain conquered for long. "It is utterly foolish to pretend . . . the end is in sight," admitted General Adna Chaffee.

By 1902 U.S. Senate hearings and scores of Army court martial trials found that U.S. occupying forces were guilty of "war crimes." General Robert Hughes admitted he ordered the burning of villages and murder of women and children. When asked by a Senator if this was "civilized warfare," he answered, "these people are not civilized." The Baltimore American wondered why the U.S. carried out "we went to war to banish."

President Teddy Roosevelt followed McKinley to the White House and continued to justify the occupation, dismiss Filipinos as "Chinese half-breeds," and to insist this was "the most glorious war in our nation's history." Congress spent $170 million on its occupation.

Mark Twain, two former presidents and other prominent citizens formed an Anti-Imperialist League that had tens of thousands attending protest meetings and signing petitions that denounced U.S. atrocities and imperial designs. One prominent African American bravely declared:"We shall neither fight for such a country or with such an army" and many others spoke out as well. The African American press stood united against a U.S. government that exported its racist "deviltry" overseas, and some labor unions began to connect the dots betw een overseas imperialism and government suppression of strikes at home. 2,800 military actions continued until 1911, took 200,000 Filipino lives, and the U.S. suffered 4,234 combat deaths. More than a dozen US servicemen defected to Aguinaldo, and half of these were African Americans although soliders of color comprised less than ten percent of the US army of occupation.

Filipino independence came in 1945 but bitterness continued with Washington support for brutal dictators such as Ferdinand Marcos who looted his country for twenty years. Vice President George Walker Bush arrived in Manila to praise Marcos' "adherence to democratic principles" and the next year a massive, nonviolent uprising forced Marcos to flee.

On October 18, 2003 President George W. Bush came to Manila to promote his war on terrorism. For the Philippine Congress, he rewrote history when he said: "Together our soldiers liberated the Philippines."

Our first overseas venture a hundred years ago offers insights into our occupation of Iraq. People always prefer self rule to a foreign master. Resisting self-determination was unpleasant long ago, and it has not and will not be pleasant now. Presidential lies come around to bite again.

[RICHARD]

What a jaded, inflammatory article.

The cause of the Maine's sinking wasn't officially
known until the late 20th century-it wasn't a boiler explosion, it was a powder magazine explosion, caused by the heat of a boiler.

While the article is mostly correct, one hundred years of retrospect, history and interpretation really make me wonder where our 'Empire Building'
skill went wrong. We bought Alaska, fell upon the Hawaiian Islands and the VI, Puerto Rico and all the smaller islands of the Carribean remain Commonwealth states, I remember the statehood votes soundly beaten by people of those areas....they wanted to remain independent.

Damn, we should have sent troops down there to get them in line and make them join us-like it or not.

The separation of the 6,000 black troops from the total and the quote of the desire to "kill n------" shows that the author not only wants to inflame feelings, but play the race card and does, several more times in this 'article'.

America was 34 years removed from the Civil War and just a few years from WWI.

lololol,

Our first overseas venture 100 years ago may have been our worst-but this moron and his statements claiming we are an occupation force make me laugh.


The people of Iraq are people who cannot and will not be ruled, by themselves or others. They are used to having edicts and laws pressed upon them. They have lived in fear and never had a voice in HOW they live their live...

Years of not having a choice has killed their spirit of humanity, freedom and peace....They can't grasp democracy because they never have had the taste of freedom and thinking for themselves.
They tolerate beheadings, bombings and terrorists because they haven't learned the old saying-

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

-Tthe saddest part is that they are forced into that kneeling position by their own brothers.

What is Katz' point?

105 years of presidential lying?

Yeah, the Iraqi 'invasion' shows we are alot smarter than we were 105 years ago......


We aren't killing our own soldiers with canned meat.....We kill them by ignoring the basic needs as to the kind of equipment they need and doubt them in every single battle they fight in.

And when they screw up we'll tie their hands behind their backs and let them try and do their jobs.

Fiction is always a good read when it's tempered with a little fact.......And since we have no sex in the S.A. war, let's stir up some racist views from the 19th century..

If a white man seems to forget he's human-

A writer can easily remind him of his sins, the past and how much progress he has made.
h

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yes, sometimes history is inflammatory....but those who are allowed to forget history are forced to relive it....

Interesting to note...McKinley was another president to whom God spoke about killing..... I read about that in a book, copyright 1980 that I borrowed from my parents this weekend.

Another interesting passage from this book..."William Randolph Hearst was looking for a way to boost sales of his newspaper when he discovered Cuba. A war in Cuba would excite the public and would, in turn, create a great demand for newspapers. Late editions...extras...irresistable headlines. So Hearst sent the great Western painter, Frederic Remington to Cuba to get pictures of a "gallant revolution." Remington went but found there was no revolution. "Everything is quiet," he wired. "There is no trouble here. There will be no war. I wish to return." "Please remain," Hearst cabled back. "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

There are three paragraphs in this that could be called "editorial", the rest are well documented facts.

To call someone a "moron" because you disagree with him??? Or you don't like the facts he relates????

And I'm curious...Richard, you seem to profess an intimate knowledge of the Iraqi people...who and what they are. Spend alot of time there? Known many Iraqis?

Just curious.....

[RICHARD]

first of all...

Since Senor Katz cant sink the Maine correctly, I take issue with his qualifications and ability to research the facts.

Those who can't get history right are doomed to twist it any way they see fit.

I am sure that Katz spoke with some of the vets from the war, and possibly some of the Phillipinos who were fighting the war.

I just have a problem with the way the race card is played every time we need a historical flogging.......To quote stuff like that sure
is a wonderful way to provide us with the facts...and remind of of our sins.......

Read "brothers in arms" by Kareem Abdul Jabbar.......Yep, THAT Karrerm Abdul Jabbar.... and when you get tired of that read
'Soul Patrol' and glance at the Tuskeegee Airmen story
and then take a gander at the story where the United states infected the Blacks with all kinds of funky illnesses.

BTW,

The first three books are stories of Blacks who fought during our wars.,


Did I say I was an expert about Middle East history???

Nope........It don't take no roads skolar to figure that one out.

I merely objected to his bone headed use of racism...


Do I know many Iraqis?

Before or now?

Do I know many Phillipinos?

Before or now?

I grew up and worked with many, I have entered their homes and broke bread with them...you see, I work in the medical field and have spent many hours with those people.....when you can talk to people, argue and like them after it really doesn't matter where you are from, we all talk the same language....

I love couscous and hummus, it's got to be spicy hot tho....


and there ain't nothing like sharing hot pig off a spit with a Phillipino friend..........I'm just amazed that they aren't fat, like me!

[lizbud]

" Did I say I was an expert about Middle East history???

Nope........It don't take no roads skolar to figure that one out.

I merely objected to his bone headed use of racism..."


Tsk, tsk, talk about Racism........


"The people of Iraq are people who cannot and will not be ruled, by themselves or others. They are used to having edicts and laws pressed upon them. They have lived in fear and never had a voice in HOW they live their live...

Years of not having a choice has killed their spirit of humanity, freedom and peace....They can't grasp democracy because they never have had the taste of freedom and thinking for themselves.
"

Now, that's a Racist statement if I've ever heard one.

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

Originally posted by RICHARD

We just have to invent a Nudie Bomb, drop it over the Middle East and while everyone scrambles to find clothes...............

Richard - can you let me know when this will happen so I can make sure I am on vacation - NO-ONE deserves to see my naked butt!!! j/k BUT what I would like to say is the following:

I have lived and worked amongst Muslims for 4 years. People ask me "what they are like?" I reply:

I look around the office and I see a PERSON, working for a living, paying off a house and a couple of cars, trying to save for a family holiday and hoping that one day his kids will get into a good university. I go to the shops and look around me and I see women who are tired of listening to kids whining, trying to pick up some groceries and get home to cook dinner for their family" - NOT any different from you and I???? I can relate to how Muslims feel when people assume that every Muslim is a terrosist - it's the same way I feel when people assume that because I am a "white" South African I am a racist - it's simply not true!!!

What I will concede however is that we are living in very volatile times, and incidents such as the recent prisoner abuse DO anger the average Bahraini - it has made it EXTREMELY uncomfortable for expats living in the Middle East (I KNOW that we are here by choice, but the reality is that in a Post-apartheid South Africa there are no career prospects for my husband, so we go where the jobs are!).

Yesterday I stopped at a traffic signal and a school bus full of local kids pulled up next to my car. They started pelting my car with rubbish - pepsi cans, juice cartons etc - NOTHING DANGEROUS, just upsetting, and the traffic cop on duty at the intersection just stood and watched.

Last week I walked out of class and have now refuse to continue teaching a student who said to me that "Berg deserved to be beheaded"- I am not talking about an uneducated man - this guy is a government employee with two degrees under his belt, who has studied overseas. As far as I am concerned I am there to help him improve his English - not talk politics!

The other thing I am waiting to see is how the people of Iraq cope with democracy. Bahrain became a democracy a few years ago, and we are experiencing a HUGE surge in crime. It used to be petty theft etc, now it is burglaries, car thefts, riots, brutal assaults and even some rapes. (A Bahraini guy was recently given a 1 YEAR jail sentence for raping a 14 year old, whilst an Indian Labourer was jailed for 1 year for stealing a mobile phone) The justice system is NOT designed to cope with people "finding their way" around this new-found freedom, and they are taking too long to amend laws and impose stricter sentences on law-breakers. My husband works in Saudi, and if you are so-inclined, you can go on a Friday afternoon to watch an execution, or hand amputation - I'm NOT saying it's right - but BOY does it send out a strong message to other would-be criminals!!!

Being here gives me a very interesting perspective on events - reading about something in local media, and US or UK publications, you would almost think it was two separate incidents!

I tend to stay of of the politics of the situation and just try to get on with my life, but it's not always easy.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud


Tsk, tsk, talk about Racism........


"The people of Iraq are people who cannot and will not be ruled, by themselves or others. They are used to having edicts and laws pressed upon them. They have lived in fear and never had a voice in HOW they live their live...

Years of not having a choice has killed their spirit of humanity, freedom and peace....They can't grasp democracy because they never have had the taste of freedom and thinking for themselves.
"

Now, that's a Racist statement if I've ever heard one.

Ally Cat,
Believe it or not, I started writing the bus analogy before I got thru your post.....something about being called a racist piques my bad nature...I apologize it it brings back any bad feelings.
-----------------
Well,

I'll just have to admit to being a racist and a realist.

Saddam drove the bus.

Saddam was kicked off the bus.

The bus will not move until the two other people on the bus decide who is driving.

No one knows how to drive, no one know the rules of the road.

The Kurds aren't allowed on the bus.

We aren't going to drive the bus because isn't not
our bus.

The rest of the people are getting anxious because they are used to the driver, who took them and picked them up where HE wanted them to go.

It's frustrating to the people because they didn't not care, as long as the bus was moving.

And while we are trying to keep the 'bus' in an uneasy peace we are the targets of the people that
are trying to disrupt the bus service and the people who are waiting for the bus.


Where is Rosa Parks when you need her??

She'd punch my racist arse out.
---------------------------------

You may as well call me a misogynist, a racist and prejudiced.

I really do dislike some people. I won't lie to you.....and the reason I dislike them is because they are dumb.

I love Racism! I watch NASCAR when I can. My favorite driver is Mark Martin.



I still an offering you an apology and a car wash.
I'll double that offer if you can prove-

My statements were racist.

I am a racist.

And a special bonus challenge!!!

You can find one other racist post I have made.
----------------
I deliberately passed on the biting sarcasm I usually reserve for things that infuriate me.

I've been called worse than a racist-

I'm not really good at race cards. I prefer chess or checkers, but I'll play cards with you.....


As long as you don't cheat.

-------------------


Damn,

I can't help it.....

If, by some miracle, you can't prove I am a racist, you don't have to apologize. I do understand that name calling comes after you can't think of anything else to yell at people.

It's frustrating not to have a good comeback.

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RICHARD
I apologize it it brings back any bad feelings.

Not at all - I can debate the issues with the rest of us - I just don't appreciate being pre-judged based on colour and/or nationality (NOT that it has happened here!!!!!)

"The people of Iraq are people who cannot and will not be ruled, by themselves or others. They are used to having edicts and laws pressed upon them. They have lived in fear and never had a voice in HOW they live their live...

Years of not having a choice has killed their spirit of humanity, freedom and peace....They can't grasp democracy because they never have had the taste of freedom and thinking for themselves.
"

It's a touchy subject. I didn't find the remarks "racist" - What I can say (from a Middle East perspective) is:

Since democracy came into being in Bahrain there is an undercurrent of lawlessness and a lack of respect towards authority which is getting much worse. The law enforcement has NOT been brought up to date to handle the increased and worsening crime which is happening. There have RARELY been riots, bank robberies, armed assaults etc here before - now they are becoming endemic.

Freedom of choice HAS to be tempered with an effective police and justice system, otherwise anarchy results.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Rather than racist I would go with condescending and elitist...

The people of Iraq are people who cannot and will not be ruled, by themselves or others.

They can't grasp democracy because they never have had the taste of freedom and thinking for themselves.

If they can't be ruled and can't grasp democracy...tell me again what the US troops are doing there????

BTW...my car is getting very dirty...

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Rather than racist I would go with condescending and elitist...

If they can't be ruled and can't grasp democracy...tell me again what the US troops are doing there????

Elitist?
I would never join a group that would have me as a member.


Trying to keep the passengers from killing each other.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by RICHARD
Elitist?
I would never join a group that would have me as a member.


Trying to keep the passengers from killing each other.

Well hey, you joined PT didn't you? LOL.


As to keeping the passengers safe,,,,,,


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ack/index.html