the presidential debates

[mugsy]

That's kind of what I meant. I know it's hard not to feel attacked. That's why I left. I felt that I was being attacked. Then, I figured, what the heck. I've had a number of people ask me to come back, so I did and the heck with the others....they're truly not worth my time.

[Karen]

No one has the right to be rude to anyone else. Comments like "in your face" are uncalled for, and not a decent response to someone who tried hard to post a well-thought-out response.

Just as Jonza may not realize that you are very young, you may not realize that English isn't even his native language, and so typing out a response that carefully took a fair amount of work.

In responding to him, mkitty, it would be more appropriate, for example, to quote a portion of what he typed, and then your response to it.

Please everyone refrain from trying to get personal, and respect that we have differences of opinion, and can do so in a civil manner, okay?

[Mkitty]

im sorry everyone. i overreacted. i just didn't like what jonza wrote to christa, and it upset christa, so i defended back. ive had it happen to my sis at skool, so it upset me. im usually not like this everyone! i am a very nice person usually. again im sorry, but what jonza wrote would have been better not written, just like what i wrote, i guess.

[jonza]

Oh dear! It looks as if I have stirred up controversy again. Just stating my opinions.

Christa, I'm sorry if you think that "I took what you said and completely screwed it around. And then basically went back and proved what I was saying."
I'm afraid that I can't see it that way myself. I just thought that the comment was totally over the top and replied in kind.

"You'd vote for anyone else, so long as it's not Bush? Is that not what that statement means???"
I suppose that's how it sounds, though I obviously didn't mean just anyone. I was basing it on the choice between Bush and Kerry (who I knew much less of then). I just couldn't imagine that the Democratic party would put forward a candidate who could do worse than Bush has. I'm sometimes not sure whether Americans are aware of just how much damage this administration has done to the reputation of their country. Not to mention their disastrous attitude to the global environment, to foreign policy, and the suspicious links to huge Corporations in the oil industry. And how about their actions against the health care bill which ensures that the pharmaceutical industry will earn an extra 139 billion dollars in the next 8 years, and that your medicine prices will continue to be much higher than neighboring countries? The medical industry, together with the White House used 900 million dollars and over a thousand lobbyists to ensure that.

You don't have to get so het up about it all, it's only my opinion. I'm sure you would consider me a pinkie liberal minded socialist if you ever met me. But it's not as simple as that, it's not just black and white.

I'm not scared of you.
I'm not intimidated by you.
And just for future reference, LEAVE RICHARD ALONE!

Please relax Christa, I must surely be one of the very last people in the whole world that you have to be scared of, and I am quite sure that Richard can look after himself, I doubt very much that he needs any help from you or anyone else. I don't even own a gun!
And I must admit that I can't for the life of me see how "dissing" Richard is narrow minded and arrogant.

Originally posted by Mkitty "i wish people didnt hate us and that there were peace"

Yes, it's so sad isn't it. Unfortunately, the main reason that so many people now hate America is a product of the actions of the Bush administration. It's as simple as that. America went to war against the wrong enemy on the wrong premise and lied about the facts. Saddam obviously had to go at some time or other, but it was a disastrous decision to go to war with such a large country without any plan for the aftermath. Especially when we are all facing a much greater threat from international terrorism. There were no terrorist organizations in Iraq before the war, now the place is crawling with them, and millions more Muslims hate America. All the money and resources and lives that have been spent in Iraq should have been spent on facing global terror. Not Saddam first and in a great hurry. That must surely be obvious to everybody now. I think that the Bush administration have let down their own armed forces shamelessly. How tragic for all the brave soldiers fighting for their lives against the wrong enemy.

From CNN I think:
Bush Rhetoric Becoming More Aggressive
In chats with reporters, two of Bush's closest advisers - Rove and Karen Hughes - together used the word "liberal'' nearly a dozen times to describe Kerry.
Bush then warns - his audience often chanting along with him - that Kerry "can run but he cannot hide" from a record that the president criticizes as both unimpressive and unabashedly liberal.

I really cannot understand why so many Republicans seem to hate the idea of someone being liberal. I checked it's meaning in the dictionary, and there isn't a negative definition to be found. Here are some examples:

Liberal: Not narrow or contracted in mind; not selfish; not bound by orthodox tenets or established forms in political or religious philosophy; independent in opinion; friendly to great freedom in the constitution or administration of government; having tendency toward democratic or republican, as distinguished from monarchical or aristocratic forms; independent; free; not servile or mean; humanitarian; impartial.
… or this:
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded; free from bigotry.

What on earth is wrong with being liberal???

"The poll found six percent of likely voters are still undecided about the race with barely more than three weeks to go until the Nov. 2 election, and 16 percent of the voters who identify themselves as independents are undecided."
I think it was Pam that mentioned this earlier, and I agree with her. How on earth can so many people still be undecided? But then again, there are so many conflicting reports in the media it's difficult to decide what's the truth and what's fictional propaganda.

Karen: Actually I am (or was) from England, I just haven't lived in an English speaking country since 1962. Since I left before I was 21 (the voting age), and postal votes weren't allowed then, I didn't have the right to vote in any national election until I was nearly 50. And that in England, a country I hadn't lived in for over 30 years! After all these years in Denmark, I still can't vote here, since I won't give up my British passport. But it does, as you say take a bit of work, and I constantly have to resort to the dictionary and spell checker!

Mugsy: Thanks for the compliment! I just try to do my best and think before I open my big mouth. Doesn't always seem to work though!

… and Christa: thank you for "letting me off easy", you had me worried there for a moment!

[DJFyrewolf36]

I think I am going to be the first (and only more than likely) person to actually agree with points on both sides of this little PT debate. I watched the second debate (as much as watching the two biggest bozos in America yap turned my stomach). Bush looked like the poster child for Anger Management classes and Kery didn't score many points on the intelegence pool. Quite frankly, I've read enough information on both canidates to give myself a brain cramp, and (sadly) compared to the media, I've learned more about both canidates by listening to people bicker here in the Dog house than I have reading the news. Thank you PT I do mean that sincerely. I have made the dicision that I cannot moraly vote for either canidate because both of them have expressed opinions that contradict my moral views. I am voiting, however. This country is headed for a major fall, Kerry will lead us down one rabbit hole and Bush will lead us down another. Both aren't good in my opinion.

I hope and pray that the great nation of America doesn't crumble into so much dust like the great civilizations before.

[lizzielou742]

Let me first say that I did not watch the second debate - I was at a wedding rehearsal/dinner on Friday night.

Originally posted by jonza

What on earth is wrong with being liberal???

I think part of it has a lot to do with religion. Politics and religion are very intertwined here.

This weekend, I was in my home state of Ohio for a wedding. My mom's neighbor has this phrase written on the windows of his van, in huge letters with white shoe polish:

"Defeat The Enemy Within. Vote Down Liberalism."

Another sign I saw on my way back from Ohio was:

"Undecided? WWJD? Vote the Bible."

Has anyone else seen anything similar where they're from?

[RICHARD]

Ladies,

Thanks for the kind words.

Pam,

Triple your feelings.


Jonza,

No comment.

Hot air makes me sleepy.

[ramanth]

I haven't seen it personally around here Lizzie, but frankly, it scares me.

I'm Pagan, and the fact that Bush and his people want to push their religious views down my throat, really scares me.

And I have gay friends that can't marry because Bush wants to re-write the constitution.

I often wonder if there are Americans with a religious belief other than Bush's or if there are gay's that plan to vote for Bush. And why?

Why vote for someone that wants to strip away your beliefs and lifestyle?

My body, my choice.

So yes... on Nov. 2nd, I will vote for ANYONE but Bush.

Originally posted by lizzielou742
Let me first say that I did not watch the second debate - I was at a wedding rehearsal/dinner on Friday night.



I think part of it has a lot to do with religion. Politics and religion are very intertwined here.

This weekend, I was in my home state of Ohio for a wedding. My mom's neighbor has this phrase written on the windows of his van, in huge letters with white shoe polish:

"Defeat The Enemy Within. Vote Down Liberalism."

Another sign I saw on my way back from Ohio was:

"Undecided? WWJD? Vote the Bible."

Has anyone else seen anything similar where they're from?

[Mkitty]

i think it is good that Bush has his religious beliefs involved with his presidency, but i don't think he's trying to push it down our throat.

[aly]

I personally don't see the problem of voting for someone because they aren't Bush. I wouldn't get mad if someone said they were voting Bush simply because he's NOT Kerry. Nor would I assume they were uninformed or uneducated. In fact, I'd assume they probably were well-informed to be that much against a candidate.

As I said before, I'm basing my decision on some key issues, but also going with the lesser of two evils.

[ramanth]

Well...I tend to think he is. Our Michigan Highways are decorated with billboards that say:

ONE NATION UNDER GOD

complete with the Bush/Cheney 04 logo.

I have no problem with someone having faith. It's good to have faith. I have faith in humanity. But I shouldn't be expected to believe what he believes.

Originally posted by Mkitty
i think it is good that Bush has his religious beliefs involved with his presidency, but i don't think he's trying to push it down our throat.

[RICHARD]

RE-ELECT GORE.

[lizzielou742]

Ramanth - I LOVE your avatar!!! I just now noticed it. It's so cute!!!

I know I'm getting a bit off topic here....but what those signs, particularly the one written on the van, do is equate liberalism to evil, basically, don't you think? See also my thread on the "GOP: God's Official Party" bumper sticker here. This kind of behavior is dividing us, and it really upsets me to see people take their religious views to such an extreme.

Can I not be a person of faith and lean to the left on some issues at the same time?

I'd like to point out that I do realize this behavior/way of thinking is not representative of all conservatives, just a certain group.

[Kfamr]

I completely agree with what Kimmy has said in her most recent posts [I haven't bothered looking at the whole thread, just the last few replies]

[Pam]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
I'd like to point out that I do realize this behavior/way of thinking is not representative of all conservatives, just a certain group.

Thank you for that Lizzie. You may now pick yourself off the floor since I have actually agreed with you on something.