Bush Expresses "Deep Disgust"

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by 2kitties
can I ask a question that may seem related but is meant to be ENTIRELY UNRELATED to the comments in this thread?

I'll try.

What are interrogators allowed to do to prisoners during questioning? I mean, if Osama is arrested and he's asked questions then he says "no comment"- what are the interrogators then "supposed" to do?

no irony intended in my question. just a pure question.

Well,

It depends on the prisoner, his classification (why he was captured) and what they want out of him. A high profile prisoner like Saddam will be treated like this...

They'll deprive him of sleep, keep him in a room with the lights on so he loses track of time, make noises when he tries to nod off, wake him up at strange times, play loud music (preferably some American Idol singers, Sorry, I can't help myself) They'll try the good cop, bad cop trick---

Keep him sitting up in a chair for hours, standing up.....Mostly mind eff tricks.

One thing about physical torture is this-

The more you hit anyone the more apt you will be to get anything you want to hear. Anything to stop the pain.....

Forget about 'truth serum' it don't work.....

[RICHARD]

A SOLUTION....
--------------------------

Volunteer bottoms wanted

A US engineering firm wants volunteers to test out a butt-kicking machine

The Idaho Statesman says Leavitt & Associates needs some firm bottoms for research on its 'manually self-operated butt-kicking machine'.

The firm normally designs industrial plants, bridges and commercial buildings, but the butt-kicking idea grew rapidly after it was first suggested at a meeting.

"We were in a meeting and someone said we needed a device that would let a client kick our butts," company head J Reese Leavitt said.

"Groups can use this to put someone dressed up like, say, Osama bin Laden, and charge $1 to kick his butt," office manager Sandy Burmeister said.
------------------------

Let's put one of these in every country......

Problems solved.

[RICHARD]

Since we are hanging out dirty laundry...

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/20802.htm


Sheesh,

If I was Ms England I'd find the deepest place on the planet
to hide.

[lizbud]

I think the editorial in our local newspaper today sums up
my feelings about how I feel about this whole dirty mess. I
couldn't have said it better myself.



today's editorial
America mustn't hide from shame


May 13, 2004


Our position is: The United States must admit to the world mistakes made in Abu Ghraib prison.

We have as a nation been seared by the shocking, graphic images that continue to emanate from Iraq.

In a video released Tuesday by a terrorist group associated with al-Qaida, five hooded men use a knife to behead American Nick Berg. One of the killers later holds up the head for the camera.

Before the video of Berg's murder was posted on the Internet, Americans were reacting in shame and disgust to the release of more photos from Abu Ghraib prison. In one image, guard dogs terrorize a nude Iraqi prisoner. In another, four nude men are bound together and stacked on top of one another on the prison floor. Three American guards stand beside the pile of flesh.

We have reached a critical moment as a nation. Berg's murder reminds us of why we must continue to aggressively pursue terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere. They are ruthless killers bound by no code of moral behavior, and they will strike again and again if not stopped.

Yet, the shame of Abu Ghraib is a reminder as well. Like all nations, the United States has in positions of power good people who make tragic mistakes and sadists who enjoy the suffering of others. What must guide us -- what must set us apart as a people from the terrorists who murdered Nick Berg -- is the rule of law, a system built upon protecting the rights of the individual.

We also have the promise of an open society, a trust that no matter how painful the truth, the American people can cope with it and learn from it.

To that end, Indiana Rep. Mike Pence, who has been a staunch supporter of the war, called on the Defense Department on Wednesday to release all the photos and video taken at Abu Ghraib. The goal isn't self-flagellation or prurience. It's the hope that the power of evil will be diminished once exposed to the light of a free society.

As a nation, we have made serious mistakes in Iraq. We must admit that to the world, and to ourselves. We should start by showing that, unlike the cowards who murdered Nick Berg, we won't hide from our shame.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
I think the editorial in our local newspaper today sums up
my feelings about how I feel about this whole dirty mess. I
couldn't have said it better myself.

I might have alluded to the same things myself....
I just don't bother to use 'Spell check' and 43 cent words...


Here's a question....No farce, funny or being a smart arse.

If you do agree with the editorial, do you think we should chase after terrorists??

And did you see or listen to the Berg murder???

And what did you think about that?


P.S.
And I really want to know what 2kitties has to say
now that a few hours have passed.....

[lizbud]

Originally posted by RICHARD

Here's a question....No farce, funny or being a smart arse.

If you do agree with the editorial, do you think we should chase after terrorists??

And did you see or listen to the Berg murder???

And what did you think about that?

Yes I do agree completely with this opinion. It is, by the way,
an opinion by a totally conservative, Republican based news
source, The Indianapolis Star.

I did view the still photos of the killing of Berg. Terrorists
will not win this war for minds. It's in nobody's interest to live
with all that hate.

[2kitties]

Richard, here is what I have to say after sleeping on it.
We admit our mistakes, punish the soldiers, and apologize.

Them we kill the people who murdered Berg slowly and painfully. Then we kill everyone who was happy about it even slower and more painfully. It all sort of gives me a "don't mess with texas" attitude.
I'd love to say I feel peaceloving and introspective about what I saw on the video, but, really it just pisses me off in a huge way and makes me wish we'd just pull out the big guns and salt the earth when we leave.

adding, off the subject:
there are those who say American's should leave. Well, I suppose I really have no problem with that. What say we just leave? What say we leave and just come home? Save the lives of plenty of our men
We close down our bases worldwide. We shut down ALL foreign trade and job outsourcing- who needs a global economy. We shut down ALL military assistance to foreign countries. We shut down ALL our borders and stop students from coming here to study, families from visiting Disney, sick people from coming here for life saving surgeries. We stop ALL our monies and keep them right here. People in Korea want assistance? Screw you. People in Africa wants AIDS medicines? Screw You, get your own scientists to do a half century of expensive research. We'll open up the Alaskan wilderness and find our own oil if we have to. People anywhere want anything? Forgettabout it! It's such a double edged sword. People around the globe just can't decide if they love America or hate us. Probably both. But if we don't send troops, we get railed for not caring (Haiti) if we do, we're tyrants.
No matter what, we are human and will make mistakes when we're out doing things.
What's the best way to avoid mistakes? Just stop trying.

[catcrazylady]

You finally get to a point that you just want to wipe the whole mess off of the map! I know there are many others that share this attitude. It proves my point that if the "Innocent Iraqi" people would stand up and say that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated then I might feel some sympathy for them! The sad thing is the few who have spoken out would never do anything to punish the terrorists! A slap on the wrist and a "don't do that kind of stuff" just doesnt cut it!! PUNISHMENT, PUNISHMENT, PUNISHMENT!!! We will punish the soldiers who "abused" the prisoners. We will stand before the world and apoligize and the world will see the results. We hear a few "shocked and horrified" statements from a few Middle Eastern governments about the beheading but somebody please tell me if we ever SEE anything done about it!!!
I understand that we can't leave, and should not, but there has to come a point where we lump everyone together and go forth. If you don't stand against it then you must be for it and approve of it!
I'm not so stupid as to believe that all of the Iraqi people feel that the tactics of terrorism are ok, but please tell me when there has ever been a time when innocents have not died in war? Can anyone tell me that all those people who died on 9-11 weren't innocent? They didn't even know they were at war!!!
I'm afraid there is going to come a point where we have to make one heck of an impact to get people to really pay attention! When we have murderers in our country we track them down and deal with them. I have no doubt that there are plenty of people in Iraq who know who did this to Berg. If we offer enough bribe money maybe someone will turn one of them in! Maybe!
I know I'm rattling and probably not making sense but my point is this... We should not have to bribe, cajole, or threaten any government to punish ANY horrific crime of terror! It should be automatic! We go into Iraq using precision bombs and doing our darndest to not hurt anyone outside the intended targets. What did that get us, a bunch of Iraqi soldiers holed up in hospitals and schools because they know how humanitarian we are!! They play us as suckers because of our attempts to be upstanding human beings. (as upstanding as you can be in war) Not only do we do all that but then we stay and ship in food, water, medical supplies, and help rebuild the damage from our bombs!!!
Now we have a few stray soldiers who are not following the humanitarian rules we have come to live by. Yet even on their worst day they couldn't begin to hold a candle to most middle east prisons!! Right around the corner we have an American civilian who has no clue about what is going on in that prison, but what the heck, lets cut off his head anyway!! Now people want to blame the "bad Americans" because this wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been so mean to those poor "Innocent Iraqi's" (why are they in prison?).
I'm sick and tired of the bashing!!! You know, we went into Japan with out much concern for who was on the ground and just a few nasty bombs ended the whole thing. People don't seem to get humanity. Why is it that fear and cruelty seem to be the everlasting memory that makes you stop and think before you do it again? How very sad that the world can't appreciate just how hard we have tried to be as compassionate as possible. Whether you think we should be there or not, can't we at least get some respect for something???!!!

[lbaker]

"let's drop the big one, and see what happens. We'll save Australia, wouldn't want to hurt no kangaroos. We'll build an amusement park there. They've got surfing too!"
Randy Newman

They're rioting in Africa
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't do to us
Will be done by our fellow man
Kingston Trio

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Bart Simpson

[Pam]

You know I haven't heard this mentioned in the news, although I am sure I am not the only one who has picked up on it, but Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg were both Jews. Somehow I don't think these were random acts against Americans but, more specifically, with their Jewish ancestry.

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lizbud
Yes I do agree completely with this opinion. It is, by the way,
an opinion by a totally conservative, Republican based news
source, The Indianapolis Star.

I did view the still photos of the killing of Berg. Terrorists
will not win this war for minds. It's in nobody's interest to live
with all that hate.

One thing.

Why does there always have to be a conservative/republican/liberal disclaimer
about where the article comes from? Doesn't that smack of editors steering the news???

I try to read as many articles as I can and don't bother with what the politcal leanings of a fish wrap are....I try to steer around articles from
"Conservative Liberally Republican" newspapers.

Whena paper claims to be one thing or the other they automatically disqualify themselves by aligning themselves with a side, How are we to know that they are reporting the facts?

Still photos are cool but you should really check the audio, I think you'll be mildly bothered.


CCL,

good points.

Laurie,

Just found the "I love L.A." 45 for my nephew....
Newman is appropriate......


2K,

You know, I gravitate toward your way of solving some of the problems-slow and as painfully as possible.....



Are you sure your "don't mess with Texas" statement has to do with the Lakers beating San Antonio last night?

[lbaker]

Richard, they still make 45's?? Do kids these days even HAVE record players?

[RICHARD]

Originally posted by lbaker
Richard, they still make 45's?? Do kids these days even HAVE record players?

I don't know....It was one I bought years ago.
My nephew likes Jazz and vinyl....there are still some places that still sell LPs!

[DJFyrewolf36]

Richard....

Why do I find myself agreeing with you?

Uh oh....my brain is melding with California again...

Just kidding, we Nevadans LOVE you guys! But I digress....

Urg, I don't see what the truely RIGHT choice is here. We leave, somebody will complain. We stay, people will *obviously* complain. We close our borders, complaints. We keep em open, complaints. You can't please EVERYONE all the time...lately you can't please ANYONE any of the time.

I say we bring back "World wide chill out day" Bring your prozac *or whatever* Bring a beer, sit back and watch wrestling on TV. Oh, and bring Bon Bons too Much better than starting some silly war...

[Edwina's Secretary]

Much better than starting some silly war...

Too late!!!!