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Thread: Gays and Gay Marriages

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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
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    Northeast
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    Very thoughtful post Snappy.

    I believe that it is hypocritical, and a convenient cop out, to state that one is "for civil unions" but not "gay marriage." In my work as a nurse, my heart has been broken several times as I had to deny admittance to the ICU to a gay person's partner, as that lifelong partner lay critically ill or dying. That person was denied the ability to make medical decisions, arrange for dispostion of the body and funeral arrangements. For me, a person committed to another in love, whatever be their orientation, is rightly due the same respect and legal rights given to heterosexual couples.

    In the U.S., marriage is a secular contract, sanctioned by and subject to the laws of the government not the "church." One may choose to have their ceremony conducted in a church/synagogue/mosque and have the ceremony performed by a leader of that religious institution. But it is the laws of that state that ultimately determine which rights and privileges are guaranteed under that contract. Many of us, induding myself, were married in a church by a minister with the blessing of God as I believe it to be. But many heterosexual couples, those of faith as well as agnostics and atheists, are legally and legitamately wed in civil ceremonies each and every day and their unions are no less valid than mine. I do not understand why other couples, gay couples, should be denied the same LEGAL safeguards as myself. Whatever religious component you choose to bring into the marriage is a personal choice, one made by you and your partner.

    I live on Cape Cod, the site of the first landing of the Pilgrims (Provincetown) and just miles from Plymouth, were the colonists first settled. The Pilgrims were a group of Calvinist separatists, (who faith later evolved into the Puritan and Presbyterian sects of Protestantism) who fled England in order to practice their religious beliefs without persecution OR intervention from the government. They were indeed a rigid, staunchly religious group and their beliefs guided they daily lives in ways we can only imagine. But they risked their lives and abandoned their homes and property, in order to safeguard their right to practice their beliefs as they choose without persecution or interference. And as Snappy has said, marriage for them was a civil affair and not one of their two sacraments, those being baptism and the Lord's Supper


    The Pilgrim's Religious Beliefs


    Sacraments and Poperty.
    To the Pilgrims, there were only two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. The other sacraments (Confession, Penance, Confirmation, Ordination, Marriage, Confession, Last Rites) of the Catholic and Anglican churches were inventions of man and were therefore not Holy. The Pilgrims opposed the mass, and considered marriage a civil affair (not a religious sacrament). The legitimacy of the pope, the saints, and the church hierarchy was rejected, as was the veneration of relics. Icons and religious symbols such as crosses, statues, stain-glass windows, fancy architecture, and other worldly manifestations of religion were rejected.

    Marriage.
    The Pilgrims considered marriage a civil affair, not to be handled by the church ministers but instead by civil magistrates. See: Of Plymouth Plantation, Ch. 12. Marriage was a contract, mutually agreed upon by a man and a woman. Marriage was ordained by God for the benefit of man's natural and spiritual life. Not getting married (and thus remaining a virgin) was not considered a sign of piety. Marriages were considered important for two main reasons: procreation of children, and to avoid the sin of adultery. The important characteristics to find in the proper spouse, according to Robinson, are (1) godliness, and (2) similarity--in age, beliefs, estate, disposition, inclinations, and affections. In the marriage, "the wife is specially required a reverend subjection in all lawful things to her husband", and the husband is "to give honour to the wife", and the Lord requires "the love of the husband to his wife must be like Christ's to his church". See: Observations Divine and Moral, by John Robinson (1628), chapter 59 "Of Marriage."


    Cape Cod has the most elderly population, per capita, of any place in the U.S. And most people are also familiar with the dour conservatism, rigdity and practicality associated with the Yankee mentality, harckoning back to that Puritan heritage. Here on Cape Cod I worship at the Congregational Church and my fellow parishoners, average age appx. 65, can hardly be described as "left wing," "liberal," "Godless," unpatriotic and most certainly, NOT "valueless." Yet my church welcomes and embraces people of all backgrounds, races, nationalities, ethnicities and sexual orientatation. It is our belief that God embraces all of his creatures and that none of us goes without sin.
    Last edited by tatsxxx11; 11-05-2004 at 04:07 PM.

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