Jazzcat I presume any brand of fabric softener would do,(we don't have that brand in NZ) only problem is my Ash seems to have a slight addiction to Fabric softener, I can just imagine a big soft grey doormat at my doorstep permanently if I use that., he would be forever smooching the doorstep, but thanks for the hint, if the vinegar does not work, thats my next try, I must admit the fragrance is a tad non-pleasing to my nose, so lets hope pussy out there thinks the same.