Originally posted by Twisterdog
That is an EXCELLENT question. I have often wondered about that myself. Frankly, the whole thing with Jesus brings up a zillion questions for me. I suppose it does for anyone ... except those rare and wonderful people, like my dear Grandma, who simply believe the Bible, word for word, at face value, without a thought of questioning anything. That is TRUE faith ... and, alas, I don't have it, I suppose. My mom says that Jews who lived before Jesus, and believed in God, will go to Heaven and be saved ... because they were following God's word and worshipping him. They couldn't very well worship someone who didn't exist on Earth yet. Which opens another can of worms for me.....
God was just God, and his followers were Jews. All was well for thousands of years. All of a sudden, God sends his son down to Earth as a baby named Jesus, and all the Jews are supposed to change their belief over night ... beliefs they have held for thousands of years. They are supposed to say, "Ooops, we were wrong. We aren't Jews anymore ... now we're Christians. We will follow the teachings of this young radical, proclaiming to be the son of God, and we will abandon the only religion we have ever known ... a religion which was just fine with God only yesterday, mind you. And if we don't, suddenly we'll go to Hell." Uuummmmm, ok. Sorry, but that doesn't sound very fair to me. I've always wondered about that.
This is a question that had ALWAYS hit my mind ever since I was a child, growing up. In my case, I would wonder.......what about the people before Mohammad?? This was of course, when I was younger, and didn't exactly know what my religion said about this. As I got older, I realized that we believe there is only one religion before God, only one religion that God sent to mankind, and it was mankind who changed it, and created differences amongst themselves. We believe Adam was a Prophet, too, so we believe, right from the beginning, God sent His Message to mankind.........the same message. We also believe the *Jews*, or the followers of Moses were believers. The Quran is full of stories about them, and about the followers of Jesus too. We believe Moses, Jesus, and all other Prophets were Muslims too. The term *Muslim* actually means *One who submits to God*. So from our belief, the believers before Mohammad were no different than us.......that they will have the same accountability before God.......that they worshipped the same God as us, and they didn't have to worry about worshipping someone who wasn't born yet, because God was always there, and Jesus wasn't. We believe Islam to be the completion of God's Word for all of mankind, but no different than what God originally revealed before. We don't worship Mohammad, or Jesus, or Moses, or any of the Prophets..........ONLY God (as in ONE God........I still don't understand Trinity), so I don't see any confusion from an Islamic point of view on this issue. The people following Prophets before Mohammad were believers of the same message, in our faith.
Now, if you are wondering why I'm confused/questioning the aspect of Trinity when I *do* firmly believe God revealed the Bible to Jesus, its because, as I mentioned earlier, we believe mankind altered those Holy Books over the centuries, and from our beliefs, the Trinity issue is one of the aspects that was altered. In other words, from our faith, we don't believe God really said He is 3 in 1. We believe that was added later on, because the Bible was compiled years after Jesus had left this world......not right away. That is why so many things in Judhism and Christianity are the same as Islam. Just like Jews can't eat pork as we can't, and the Bible contains the same stories of Prophets as the Quran does.......we do believe a lot of the Bible even today, is the Word of God, but we don't take it because we can't believe in what we believe to be the man-written parts. I must say though, I love reading the Bible and comparing it to the Quran, because you can really see the similarities/differences between the two, and it gives a clearer picture of both religions.
PCB, here's what I was taught about the trinity as a child: There is one God. He created Jesus, to go out to people on earth. He created the Holy Spirit, to go out to people in their thoughts and minds. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were created by God, so they are parts of God himself ... made from his holiness. Make sense? Of course not!!
You're right. Of course not.Maybe I'm confused because everything I've been taught in my religion has always been so clear and did make complete sense to me, so I just can't understand this.
This is because in the Quran, God has given us a clear picture of the people before Mohammad, the believers........who were the Jews and Christians of the time. We don't believe Islam to be a different religion to what God revealed to Prophets before. The differences between us today, are because of what we believe to be man-written changes in previous books. I don't think most Jews and Christians of today really *know* about Muslims and what they truely believe in.........Lots of misunderstanding........unfortunately.
PCB, I am more and more impressed by your religion as I read your posts, PCB. It seems to me that Islam is much more tolerant and open-minded toward Judaism and Christianity then Judaism and Christianity are towards Islam.
That is a very interesting, and appealing, idea. I'll have to give that one some thought ......
I love this thread. I'm learning so much! Thanks for all the answers everyone!
I thought I would share some more of what the Quran says on Jesus. *Gosh the internet makes it SO easy to search for the verses you're looking for!
42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.
43. "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).
45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God.
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him *Jesus*) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
51. "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Gpd." Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims (submitters to the Will of God).
53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."
54. And (the disbelievers) plotted and planned, and God too planned, and the best of planners is God.
55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
56. "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
57. "As to those who believe and work righteousness, God will pay them (in full) their reward; but God loveth not those who do wrong."
58. "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
59. The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him (Adam) from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
60. The Truth (comes) from God alone; so be not of those who doubt.
Quran; 3, 42-60
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