Gun control discussion

[Karen]

I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.

I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

[blue]

Gun control means using both hands.

[RICHARD]

I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

I was being facetious.

I also love the idea that Dr Drew and all the other kooks on TV are trying to figure out if this guy is crazy.

Uh, you think?

Everyone has a certain 'bent' -I am a person who sees a sign or warning and immediately want to do the opposite.

Am I crazy? I think so, but I try not to succumb so easily to my stupdity/urges.

I draw the line at stopping a fan with my tongue.

[sparks19]

it's already illegal for people to kill other people (unless in self defense). so what makes ANYONE think that illegal guns would have stopped this sicko? Oh this gun is illegal? Oh well then i won't go commit mass murder.

Illegal guns are easier to find here than one might think. drugs are illegal here too but we seem to have QUITE the drug problem in this country that's costing us billions in the "war against drugs" that is WORTHLESS.

then of course one can go onto google or youtube and get step by step instructions on how to make a homemade bomb.

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

why is everyone always fighting about gun laws and never about the dismal way we handle the mentally ill. once you are 18 nothing can be done to force someone into a mental health facility unless they do something like this. We are a "bare minimum" mindset when it comes to mental illness. this guys mother even said after the fact that she's not at all surprised he did this. what does that tell you? does taht tell you that if guns were illegal he would have just gone on with life? NO it does NOT! and the fact that he booby trapped his apartment with bombs and the like. did he just buy those at the corner store?

LAWS do not matter to the non law abiding. like I said it's already illegal to murder people so why didn't that law stop him?

This is all so very unfortunate but should be looked at as a "how do we improve help for the mentally ill in this country" instead of "OMG ban ALL THE WEAPONS" people will always hurt people no matter what tool they use. We need to find a way to TREAT these people BEFORE it gets to this point. but banning guns is simpler right? A bandaid is all it is

[momcat]

Like any other city, there's a lot of shooting in Trenton. There was a story in today's paper about a 76 year old woman who shot and killed her husband. Someone was shot to death about a block from where we live. Sadly, it's a city wide every day event here. I'm terrified of all guns - legal as well as illegal.

[Lady's Human]

Like any other city, there's a lot of shooting in Trenton. There was a story in today's paper about a 76 year old woman who shot and killed her husband. Someone was shot to death about a block from where we live. Sadly, it's a city wide every day event here. I'm terrified of all guns - legal as well as illegal.

Why be terrified of an inanimate object? It's a tool, a mindless, driveless piece of metal. It has no motives of its own. It takes a person to use the tool, and if the person who's using it is evil, it will be used for evil. However, it doesn't take a gun. It could be a knife, a car, or a semi full of fertilizer and fuel.

[cassiesmom]

I read in the newspaper this morning that a group of pastors in Chicago have gotten together and called for a "weekend of peace". I hope it truly happens. There are sad stories on the news almost nonstop around here.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4793404.story

I'm with momcat - guns terrify me. To be more specific- what terrifies me is that they keep ending up in the hands of impulsive young gangbangers. Or of mentally unstable people (remember the Northern Illinois University shootings on Valentine's Day 2008?) who get hold of a bunch of weapons and shoot up a public place. I should not have to be afraid every time I go out in public. I think my right to be safe and free from fear trumps the right of someone who shouldn't even have a gun in the first place to go on a shooting spree. Something has to be done to keep these incidents from happening. How to manage chronic city-based gun violence is a lot different from a mentally unstable person in a movie theater or a college lecture hall, though.

[Randi]

Because it's a right to own a gun in the US doesn't mean it's right. Have you ever wondered how other countries are surviving without everyone having one.

Yes, I know that if someone really wants to use a gun he/she will get one somehow, but it will be a lot more difficult, and the person might have had time to cool off before he kill someone.

Btw, is it allowed in all States in the US? And how about Canada?

[AvaJoy]

it's already illegal for people to kill other people (unless in self defense). so what makes ANYONE think that illegal guns would have stopped this sicko? Oh this gun is illegal? Oh well then i won't go commit mass murder.

Illegal guns are easier to find here than one might think. drugs are illegal here too but we seem to have QUITE the drug problem in this country that's costing us billions in the "war against drugs" that is WORTHLESS.

then of course one can go onto google or youtube and get step by step instructions on how to make a homemade bomb.

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

why is everyone always fighting about gun laws and never about the dismal way we handle the mentally ill. once you are 18 nothing can be done to force someone into a mental health facility unless they do something like this. We are a "bare minimum" mindset when it comes to mental illness. this guys mother even said after the fact that she's not at all surprised he did this. what does that tell you? does taht tell you that if guns were illegal he would have just gone on with life? NO it does NOT! and the fact that he booby trapped his apartment with bombs and the like. did he just buy those at the corner store?

LAWS do not matter to the non law abiding. like I said it's already illegal to murder people so why didn't that law stop him?

This is all so very unfortunate but should be looked at as a "how do we improve help for the mentally ill in this country" instead of "OMG ban ALL THE WEAPONS" people will always hurt people no matter what tool they use. We need to find a way to TREAT these people BEFORE it gets to this point. but banning guns is simpler right? A bandaid is all it is

I think the above bears repeating. Especially this sentence:

You can't legislate the evil out of humanity no matter how hard you try.

I also don't get why he is referred to as the alleged killer . . . so absurd. Wonder why he TOLD the police that his apt. was booby-trapped with explosives . . . gee, maybe he felt a twinge of remorse for the murders he had just committed and didn't want to cause any more carnage. Of course I jest. Like other young mass murders have done, at least he could have killed himself but no . . . he wanted to stick around to bask in all the media attention. Too bad the cops couldn't have just dispatched him. I doubt he is mentally ill . . . unless being an intelligent, egomaniacal sociopath who craved fame at any cost could be classified as such. Now it will cost the taxpayers as he is put through the legal trial process.

[sparks19]

Translations: Romanian
Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, more bold than the rest, met to discuss their dilemma. "Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one dog and the wolves are many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand. What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!"
One sheep spoke up, saying "It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it, but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we could fight back, and stop this savagery." The other sheep clamored in agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their weapons and struck at them and cried "Begone! We are not food!" and drove off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth? It was unthinkable!
The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock huddled together and cried out "Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things! You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!"

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. "But we are your brethren!" they cried, "We are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves, they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!"
"Baaaaaaaddd!", cried the flock,"the things are bad and will pervert you, and we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock. They scare us!". So the armed sheep resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did. Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from which more than one wolf did not return. Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in terror again, "Baaaaaaddddd! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you from our presence!".

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his court and council, encouraged by the words of their moneylenders and advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested before the council, saying "It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!". But the flock would not hear, and drowned them out with cries of "Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!".

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!".

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and said, "Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth! Brothers, let us feed!". And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the slaughter. It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves fled, vowing to each other to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, "See? If the wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!". But the flock cried out, more feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, "Baaaaaaaadddd! These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us! Baaaaaaaddd!". The other sheep could only hang their heads and sigh. The flock had forgotten that even they possessed teeth; how else could they graze the grasses of the pasture? It was only those who preyed, like the wolves and jackals, who turned their teeth to evil ends. If you pulled their own fangs those beasts would take another's teeth and claws, perhaps even the broad flat teeth of sheep, and turn them to evil purposes.

The bold sheep knew that the fangs and claws they possessed had not changed them. They still grazed like other sheep, and raised their lambs in the spring, and greeted their friend the dog as he walked among them. But they could not quell the terror of the flock, which rose in them like some ancient dark smoky spirit and could not be damped by reason, nor dispelled by the light of day.

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.
They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!
By Charles Riggs, (C) 1997

[cassiesmom]

Charlotte Allen, what rock did you just crawl out from under? Are you flippin' kidding me?! *banging head on table* She contends in the National Review that the Newtown shooting could have been prevented if adult men had been present. If there had been any adult men there, what do you think we would have now, Ms. Allen? Dead adult men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...nro-symposium#

[pomtzu]

Charlotte Allen, what rock did you just crawl out from under? Are you flippin' kidding me?! *banging head on table* She contends in the National Review that the Newtown shooting could have been prevented if adult men had been present. If there had been any adult men there, what do you think we would have now, Ms. Allen? Dead adult men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...nro-symposium#

What a freakin idiot! Maybe we missed the memo that stated that men are bulletproof. I'll have to remember to grab a man and put him between me and someone that might be shooting at me.

[Catty1]

U.S. gun laws show difficulty of stemming violent acts




Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-gun-...#ixzz2Fc0T5VhQ


One of the commenters raises a point about restricting the ammo available for sale. I agree with that, especially if guns purchased before a certain date can be kept.

Another commenter rants that Obama should work with the NRA. The NRA has stated willingness to help, and has yet to make their official public statement at a press conference tomorrow. I think this commenter needs to re-read a few news stories.

[blue]

U.S. gun laws show difficulty of stemming violent acts




Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-gun-...#ixzz2Fc0T5VhQ


One of the commenter's raises a point about restricting the ammo available for sale. I agree with that, especially if guns purchased before a certain date can be kept.

Ban certain types of ammo, more people will start reloading their own. If you ban the ammo my firearms shoot, I would start reloading my own.

[Lady's Human]

If you ban ammo sales you better follow that by banning sales of lead and lead alloys, smelting pots, swagers, molds, ad nauseum.

And regardless of how much you ban, ammunition will still be produced by private parties.