London Riots (ETA post #23: Brits, please sign the petition to axe rioters' benefits)

[Miss Z]

Chris,

I would never, ever, dispute the fact that the vast majority of council house residents are hard-working and decent. I'm a little hurt that you would assume I think otherwise.

I'll grant that my use of 'offered' was wrong. I understand that council house has to be applied for and I sent out the wrong impression - that was a mistake on my part.

I'm right in thinking, though, that one is refused a council house if one has serious behavioural offences? And that anti-social behaviour, it is made clear, results in eviction?

As for prices, all I can say is that they seem to be considerably lower than average rents in my area. Perhaps indeed that is a reasonable rent for the housing here, and prices are different elsewhere. Personally, I find many rental prices very unreasonable (and I won't even go into how much my London flat sucks out my bank balance every week!).

Thank you for posting those articles. I find this quote sums up my feelings well:

'Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters. As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated.'

I’ve been debating this on facebook too – I think the decent folks who receive benefits, council housing, whatever, would be appalled to think that those who have rioted, and shown such lack of care towards their communities, are entitled to the same level of help as them. When I worked in the charity shop, plenty of people I got to know well only bought their clothes from us, because they couldn’t afford high street prices. Would they thus go and smash up the big brand stores, out of spite? No, since they have dignity, something which is exclusive of class, IMO.

As for the ‘middle class’ rioters, they deserve the book thrown at them just as hard. University students? Take away their student loans and grants. The children of well-off families – well even they receive some degree of child benefit, which I believe they should then lose for that child. There’s got to be ways of punishing these people that sends out a message of zero tolerance across all levels of society.

All these people, regardless of their place in society, have demonstrated that they do not respect their fellow man, our communities, our police force, and our government, and have gone about their gripes in a most despicable and shameful way. Thus, I believe that none of them are owed anything by the society which they have chosen to spurn.

[ChrisH]

Chris, I would never, ever, dispute the fact that the vast majority of council house residents are hard-working and decent. I'm a little hurt that you would assume I think otherwise.

I'll grant that my use of 'offered' was wrong. I understand that council house has to be applied for and I sent out the wrong impression - that was a mistake on my part.

Zara, I am sorry that you felt a little hurt, my intention was only to point out that not all council house tenants are the 'poorer residents' you wrote of. Of course there are a portion of such that are at the level of income, or non-income, that require aid in the form of housing benefit but, believe it or not, income is not a huge part of the criteria for obtaining a council house.
In my area they have a points system for allocation of council accommodation, the more points you have the higher the chance of obtaining a home. Even then it depends if there is one vacant that fits your needs, also the waiting lists are very long. You may find the following link about the points system interesting. http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/co...ing/points.htm

I'm right in thinking, though, that one is refused a council house if one has serious behavioural offences? And that anti-social behaviour, it is made clear, results in eviction?

You are right, there is an exclusion policy.

Ineligible for Allocation (Exclusion)
Exclusion from the Housing Register may apply if you (or joint applicant) or a member of the household is guilty of serious unacceptable behaviour at the time of application, for which Housing Services have or could have obtained an Outright Possession Order.

This behaviour can include:
· Rent Arrears outstanding
· Nuisance or annoyance caused by family members
· Conviction for using a property for illegal or immoral purposes
We will check with relevant organisations and people about any unacceptable behaviour. If your application can be accepted onto the Register after this investigation, we will advise you by letter. However, if it is considered that exclusion should apply, we will pass a formal report to the Exclusion Panel, which is made up of Council Officers. We will advise you in writing giving the reason if the Panel decide that you are to be excluded from the Register. You can be excluded from the Housing Register for an indefinite period, but will have the opportunity to ask for a review if behaviour has improved or changed.

Again, yes, eviction can take place for anti-social behaviour. This link contains the information. Tenancy Enforcement You will need to scroll down to the bottom to open in a pdf or other document reader to access it in its entirety.

As for prices, all I can say is that they seem to be considerably lower than average rents in my area. Perhaps indeed that is a reasonable rent for the housing here, and prices are different elsewhere. Personally, I find many rental prices very unreasonable (and I won't even go into how much my London flat sucks out my bank balance every week!).

I wouldn't argue that the rents for council houses are a lot lower than for private property but disagree that they are 'a fraction' as your previous post stated.

All these people, regardless of their place in society, have demonstrated that they do not respect their fellow man, our communities, our police force, and our government, and have gone about their gripes in a most despicable and shameful way. Thus, I believe that none of them are owed anything by the society which they have chosen to spurn.

We have an accord on that.

[Miss Z]

Again, yes, eviction can take place for anti-social behaviour. This link contains the information. Tenancy Enforcement You will need to scroll down to the bottom to open in a pdf or other document reader to access it in its entirety.

Thanks for the link - I see it does indeed state that severe cases of ASB result in eviction. Looks like we both would consider rioting to fall under that category. I suppose that, as it stands, the rule applies only when such persons commit ABH in their neighbourhood, rather than the larger community? Because in which case I can see how people would have an escape clause should they be threatened with losing their house... and all the more reason for something like the e-petition to force the government to be decisive about how convicted rioters should be punished.

Sorry I got a little pissy. Benefits, and by whom they are received, has always been a raw topic for me. My explanation of council housing was rushed, and I apologise if it caused any offence.

[wombat2u2004]

This guy has something interesting to say...hee hee

http://www.youtube.com/v/9pAC0YSmK0g?hd=1

[ChrisH]

Wom, I have to say I agree with most if not all of his rant.

Zara, something to inflame the rawness.

Give me charity money pleads mother-of-TEN who insists her £30,000-a-year benefits are 'not enough

She was also on 'This Morning'.
http://www.itv.com/this-morning/life...-ten-children/

In my opinion the benefit system needs a complete overhaul so that she and her ilk, both now and in the future, are not able to milk it the way they do.

There are many, many, deserving benefit recipients, the majority of whom are those who have fallen on hard times by no fault of their own, perhaps because of unemployment or bad health. In the case of the former, people who are trying their level best to be employed again and in the latter, those who would like nothing better than to earn their own living once again. These are who the system is meant for, not parasites such as the woman featured in the links above.

[lizbud]

Chris,

I read the article but the video can't be viewed by anyone outside the UK.

There are people just like the "mom of 10" in the US also. People who seem
to think the world owes them a living. It's unfortunate but true. I wonder if
that women grew up in a "charity kept" home? She looks healthy enough, she
should get a job & see how normal people EARN their money.

[phesina]

What I don't get is... 10 kids???!!!!!

Okay, so perhaps one was unexpected... but by the time #2 showed up, she should have figured out what was causing them to come along. Why the hell didn't she get sterilized then.. or at least gotten some decent birth control plan going?

I'm pretty much a "liberal" (dirty word these days).. but I think there is a lot to be said for having people on public assistance rendered incapable of reproducing, at least for that period of time. Okay, so we'll support you and your two kids while you (hopefully) start getting your life together.. but more kids?

Of course, the question then is, what happens to the additional kids?

[wombat2u2004]

Wom, I have to say I agree with most if not all of his rant.

He kind of gets to the basics of it, hey ???
But he's right in saying that their parents are partly responsible for their behaviour, and if the govt keeps throwing money at people like that, then why work ????