31 Americans dead

[wombat2u2004]

I think the next question is are we willing to do what is necessary to try and create the conditions necessary to allow the people of Afghanistan to govern themselves in a way that will allow them to be a peaceful contributor to the world? Personally, I do not think so. If that is the case, its time to leave.

Why would you think like that Puck ??? Why do you believe that we can't leave them in a position to govern themselves peacefully ???
We did it in Korea. Yes ??? South Korea is on it's feet, economically stable.
Simply put, what we did there was buy those people time, to arm them and train them and get their economy right, instead of leaving them to fend for themselves against all the so called "freedom fighters" the "liberators" the blah blah blah that the media wants us to believe. Ask any South Korean if they would want ever to be part of the regime in the north, ask them if life would be better being ruled by the north, ask them if their country would be better off economically if ruled by the north......I'm pretty sure you know what their answers would be.

Allow me to fill you in a little about the war I was involved in, and the disgusting way in which it was run by the U.S.
I, like you, was a combatant. And I seen my fair share. I've been with US soldiers, Kiwi's, Aussies, South Vietnamese Army, Nung and Montagnard mercenaries, the latter three of which were fighting not for the US or anyone else....they were simply fighting for their country. We went there to help these people, and we did, and we did it well. We armed them, we trained them, and we fought with them. Against who ??? The so called "Liberators".
What a joke !!!! Liberators of what ????
The "Liberators" slaughtered at will.....oh they had a go at us alright, we all lost some 50,000 men. Any idea of how many of their own people they killed ??? Let me tell you mate, if not 100's of thousands, then it would have to be almost millions. And I'm not talking about them killing South Vietnamese soldiers (of which their was many), I'm talking about women, children, the elderly, whoever they wanted to kill. Did you know during the 1968 Tet Offensive when they over-ran Hue, they killed thousands and thousands of people because they were educated ? Yep, their only crime was to be educated. Not to mention the thousands of babies and children that were murdered after the final victory over the south because those kids were half caste....yep, Vietnamese mothers, U.S. fathers.
And we get idiots like Jane Fonda, the media, and the local San Francisco flower power people telling us to make love and not war ??? Jeez, give me a break.

Why couldn't we have done in South Vietnam like we did in Korea ???
Why is it so difficult to believe that it can happen in Afghanistan ??
Why don't we simply just DO IT ????
No rules. No bloody politician imput. Sack idiots in Congress. Just get in there and kick the hell out of them.
You know Puck, we do have the ability, I know, I've been involved in it. So no one EVER can convince me of the relevance of "UNWINNABLE", that word is just junk. We as soldiers know that, and you should know that.

Sorry for the rave, I get upset a bit.

[Puckstop31]

Why would you think like that Puck ??? Why do you believe that we can't leave them in a position to govern themselves peacefully ???

Read up on the history of Afghanistan. Me thinks you will figure it out.

Why couldn't we have done in South Vietnam like we did in Korea ???
Why is it so difficult to believe that it can happen in Afghanistan ??
Why don't we simply just DO IT ????
No rules. No bloody politician imput. Sack idiots in Congress. Just get in there and kick the hell out of them.

Because, thank God, our military is beholden to our civilian government. As frustrating as it can get watching the aliens we send to represent us, play politics with our finest men and women, I am still assured that our military still is under the control of our civilian leadership. Awful as said 'leadership' is most of the time.

Think very long and very hard about what you are asking for Wom. It sounds to me like you want a very authortarian leadership.... Only YOUR kind of authortarians. "No bloody politician input..." It SHOULD NOT ever be that simple man.

You know Puck, we do have the ability, I know, I've been involved in it. So no one EVER can convince me of the relevance of "UNWINNABLE", that word is just junk. We as soldiers know that, and you should know that.

ABSOLUTLEY. You have to know that I know what our militaries are capable of. It has never been a question of the ability of our forces to win. Its the people who our military serves, not having the will to do what is necessary.

I know and you know that war is a ugly, horrible thing. Many people cannot get past the fact that it costs lives to win freedom. Plus, with the way the media lustily craves any story where our forces do something wrong....

Until we have the civilian leadership with the guts to do what it would take to win, its not worth wasting our time, treasure and hte blood of our finest.

Just keep all of this in mind when, a few years from now when all the western forces are gone.... When the Taliban take their revenge on the populace who dared support freedom.... Remind the usual suspects of this day.

Sorry for the rave, I get upset a bit.

No worries. My father is the same way about it. He is a multiple tour Vietnam vet as well.

[wombat2u2004]

Think very long and very hard about what you are asking for Wom. It sounds to me like you want a very authortarian leadership.... Only YOUR kind of authortarians. "No bloody politician input..." It SHOULD NOT ever be that simple man.

No mate, I don't want an authoritarian leadership at all. I just believe that if we commit ourselves to helping people, we have to follow through. We can't just go there and make all the promises in the world, and then just walk away from it.