Obama Ends The Ban On Gays In The Military

[Edwina's Secretary]

Yeah, like equal treatment under the law.

Indeed! The audacity of these people. Wanting to serve their country. Who do they think they are?

[Lady's Human]

Thank God I'm retired.

This is going to be messy, the military will have a nightmare of a time with this, but everything will be hunky dory in the press.

Careers and lives will end because of this fiasco.

[NicoleLJ]

Yes it will be messy at times. But the same thing happened to the first African American deep sea divers for the navy. And the first African Americans to fly in the air force in their own units. People had the same arguements then to stop them doing what they did as you are stating now. In those cases and many others it helped to change how African Americans were viewed in those areas. Which is what I think will happen here as well.

Change is never easy. And for some it is hard to accept. But change can never happen unless someone takes a risk and takes the first step. Others then follow and another step then can be taken.

[pomtzu]

And just how do Canadians handle situations such as this???????

[NicoleLJ]

Canada full accepts gays serving in the military

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...litary_service

Nations that permit gay people to serve openly in the military include the Republic of China (Taiwan), Australia, Israel, Argentina, Canada, all member states of the European Union and every original NATO signatory except Turkey.

Here is Canada's histroy on this subject.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...adian_military



In May 1967, due to the passing of the CF Reorganization Act (C-90) the Canadian Forces issued Canadian Forces Administrative Order (CFAO) 19-20, Sexual Deviation - Investigation, Medical Investigation and Disposal, which required members of the military suspected of being homosexual to be investigated and then subsequently released.

This order was repealed in 1992, after a challenge by then CF Member Michelle Douglas, thereby allowing gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people to serve in the Canadian Forces free from harassment and discrimination.[2][3]

A series of provincial and territorial court decisions beginning in 2003 ruled in favour of the legality of gay marriage, and a national law to that effect was passed by Canada's parliament in 2005 by the Paul Martin Liberal government.

In 2004, Jason Stewart was the first member of Canada's military to marry a same-sex partner.[4]In May 2005, Canada's first military gay wedding took place at Nova Scotia's Canadian Forces Base Greenwood. Officials described the ceremony as low-key but touching. A similar wedding has since taken place between two male Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers. Today, the Canadian Forces recognizes same-sex marital and common-law unions, and affords them the same benefits offered to all married or common-law serving members

[Asiel]

And just how do Canadians handle situations such as this???????

Don't kid yourself Pomtzu. I personally know 7 gays/lesbians that joined the forces and I woudn't want to describe the horrors that they confided in me that they were put through while in the service. Straight from the horse's mouth so I do believe them as 4 of them quit . Canada might have made it a non issue but the ordinary citizen isn't always as tolerant.

[Lady's Human]

Asiel, as I was saying, it's a technical non-issue, but what happens within the military in reality is a very different situation.

[Catty1]

It may be legal and look good on paper...but many people will get beaten and worse.

Homophobia exists in the civilian world too...and every so often there is a news report of a horrid assault (putting it mildly).

Yes, it's a progressive and good idea. I bet many gay and lesbian people will still stay in the closet while serving in the military. Best to focus on one enemy.

[Asiel]

I do know that . But Canadians in general are not as tolerant as the painted picture shown here. Can't say someone didn't try to avert this, too bad it fell through. To each his own, just a lot of crap to me, not worth the discussion.
Especially when it's all been copied and pasted from other sources.

[Lady's Human]

Yes it will be messy at times. But the same thing happened to the first African American deep sea divers for the navy.

Hollywood does not equal reality, and this isn't even a remotely similar situation.

And the first African Americans to fly in the air force in their own units. People had the same arguements then to stop them doing what they did as you are stating now. In those cases and many others it helped to change how African Americans were viewed in those areas. Which is what I think will happen here as well.

Black pilots were never really an issue with the military with the exception of the senior officers, who were largely white southerners.

A better comparison situationally would be the removal of the barriers to women serving in Combat support units. Never said women couldn't physically do the job. However, sexual assault and general assault went up by a significant margin, much of it unreported by the media because of the nature of the manner with which military discipline is handled.

According to the media, all was fine. The reality, however, went unreported, until women were serving in combat zones in large numbers for the first time. Then it was headline news.

This won't even get that much coverage, but the reality of the situation is going to be far uglier.

[NicoleLJ]

LH do you really think the US military personel are that full of bigotry? I have more faith in people then that. If Canada and many other countries have had no real issues or problems with this transition why in the world would you assume that the States will? I thought they were the land of the Free. The best place to live for the rights it gives it's people. Yet Canada in this area gives more freedom with little issue? I am glad the States has finally decided to join Canada and other countries in this.

[Lady's Human]

1) I'm deeply disappointed, Nicole, the correct word is homophobia. You're losing points for politically correct discourse. Pay better attention to the memos next time.

2) Did you fail to not the "Thank God I'm retired"?

That's recently retired. I think I have a decent handle on the minds of soldiers.

BTW, if you think 'every other military' accepts gays in service with no issues, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. You won't hear anything about the hazing and assaults that happen in the US Military after this, and we're OPEN to the media.

[NicoleLJ]

1) I'm deeply disappointed, Nicole, the correct word is homophobia. You're losing points for politically correct discourse. Pay better attention to the memos next time.

2) Did you fail to not the "Thank God I'm retired"?

That's recently retired. I think I have a decent handle on the minds of soldiers.

If you want to nit pick words I can to. You sentence should be NOTE not NOT. So you were in the military. I was raised in it all over Canada. You failed to answer any of the questions I asked you in the previous post. If you don't want to answer or can't that is fine but they are fair questions. Here they are agian:

do you really think the US military personel are that full of bigotry? Because I have know tons of them and none of the ones I have ever met, lived on the base with(American soldiers did come to our bases at times for training coarses), and talked to never felt this way. They didn't care actually.

If Canada and many other countries have had no real issues or problems with this transition why in the world would you assume that the States will? I personally think there will be issues but they will be over come as they come up and are dealt with. I just don't think it is an impossible goal since others have already proven that it can be done.

I thought they were the land of the Free. The best place to live for the rights it gives it's people. Yet Canada in this area gives more freedom with little issue? This will give Gays the same rights as everyone else. Look at my post that shows the history of Gays in the military in Canada. I think it would be awsome if the States followed suite.

[pomtzu]

Perhaps the reason why other countries have embraced this before the U.S., is that their population is considerably smaller and maybe they just had take what they could get. Perhaps their standards are lower too. Not saying that these countries or their people are inferior - not by any means - but there has to be some underlying reason. IMO of course - before anyone jumps on me for my statement.

[NicoleLJ]

BTW, if you think 'every other military' accepts gays in service with no issues, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. You won't hear anything about the hazing and assaults that happen in the US Military after this, and we're OPEN to the media.

I never said no issues I implied only a little issue. But that is Canada. In the States I have stated that I do believe there will be issues. I have said that prior. But I also believe that they will be over come as time goes on.