Politics and religion.

[Edwina's Secretary]

At my company, you get to be a peer with everyone, even the owners.

That is easier to achieve when you have 10 or 20 employees.

Not so easy when you have 30,000 or even 100.

That is what unions do. Level the playing field. Put the worker bees on more of a peer level with management.

You are prepared to deny other employees the same working conditions you enjoy?

[Puckstop31]

That is easier to achieve when you have 10 or 20 employees.

Not so easy when you have 30,000 or even 100.

That is what unions do. Level the playing field. Put the worker bees on more of a peer level with management.

You are prepared to deny other employees the same working conditions you enjoy?

Who is denying them the same opportunity? It sure is not me. Those people made a choice to join the union. When you cast your lot in with the "collective", your enjoy the benefits and sometimes the negatives of being part of a 'collective'. Because remember, when you are part of a union, the union HAS to treat EVERYone equally, even the turds. Isn't there a saying about one bad apple? Also, the working conditions I 'enjoy' are not an accident. I busted my ass for a long time to be able to enjoy the freedom I do. And our little company did it ON OUR OWN.

A former client of ours, a company that assembled truck frames. There was a year long battle with the shop unionizing. The company bent over backwards for their people. They told them the honest truth. The workers voted to unionize anyway. 3 months later the doors were shut.

But hey... I've got zero problems with private company union shops. And if a private company is treating their employees poorly, the workers need to do what they need to do. But sometimes, as was the case of the example I used above, the guy driving an air gun got it in his head somewhere that he deserves $35 an hour, fully paid medical and 3 weeks off a year. I wonder where he got that idea?

Economics is a cruel master I suppose. (I know, its not about the money.....)

[Edwina's Secretary]

I said nothing about the "same opportunity". I said the "same working conditions."

Big difference.

Most union employees - private or public work very hard as well.

Your attitude toward those who are not you is typical.

Your attitude is precisely the reason some employees feel the need for a union.

People do not like patronizing elitists.

Go figure....

[Puckstop31]

I said nothing about the "same opportunity". I said the "same working conditions."

Big difference.

Most union employees - private or public work very hard as well.

Your attitude toward those who are not you is typical.

Your attitude is precisely the reason some employees feel the need for a union.

I think that when a person chooses to join a union, that act is the one of denying themselves the working conditions I enjoy. I never forced anyone to join a union.

Did I ever say that most don't work hard? Of course I didn't. You need that the be the paradigm so your arguement works. The 'bad guy' to you has to be MEAN. You 'progressives' are so predictable. Everyone is some sort of victim, except the people who actually make it to the top. Success is bad for the people who are not, right?

I'd never, ever, hold any one back who wants to really chase their own happiness. When you really shoot for that star, you are going to fall down, often. If you wait around for somebody top pick you up, you get passed.


So, if that is the attitude you are talking about, my belief that any individual can attain whatever their dreams are, on their own...*** Wicked.

ETA: Allow me to preclude a possible responce. I realized that something I said could be taken the wrong way.

"On their own"... Of course I did not get where I am ALL on my own. I have a supportive family, friends, vendors, employees, and clients who helped us (us, my employees benefit as well... Bringing others along on my success if you will.) I am on my own in that the only group I belong to that helps me along is being a United States Citizen.

Nothing can compete with free individuals chasing their dreams. THAT is something I can get united on.

[wombat2u2004]

Unions are a bunch of commo's here.
They'll not give a second thought about sending an honest businessman or employer broke.
When I had my building company I never hired a union member. Why ???
Because they are troublemakers and think that the world owes them a living.
Not true. I studied at night for 7 long years plus worked physically on building sites by day to get my licence, whilst others sat in the pub and drank beer all day.
Do I owe them ???? Nope....nothing.
The men I employed, worked hard, were paid well, and everyone was happy.
No unionists in my outfit. Ya wanna join the union ??? Then hang up ya hammer, cos ya ain't welcome in my team.

[Bonny]

I think that when a person chooses to join a union, that act is the one of denying themselves the working conditions I enjoy. I never forced anyone to join a union.

Did I ever say that most don't work hard? Of course I didn't. You need that the be the paradigm so your arguement works. The 'bad guy' to you has to be MEAN. You 'progressives' are so predictable. Everyone is some sort of victim, except the people who actually make it to the top. Success is bad for the people who are not, right?

I'd never, ever, hold any one back who wants to really chase their own happiness. When you really shoot for that star, you are going to fall down, often. If you wait around for somebody top pick you up, you get passed.


So, if that is the attitude you are talking about, my belief that any individual can attain whatever their dreams are, on their own...*** Wicked.

ETA: Allow me to preclude a possible responce. I realized that something I said could be taken the wrong way.

"On their own"... Of course I did not get where I am ALL on my own. I have a supportive family, friends, vendors, employees, and clients who helped us (us, my employees benefit as well... Bringing others along on my success if you will.) I am on my own in that the only group I belong to that helps me along is being a United States Citizen.

Nothing can compete with free individuals chasing their dreams. THAT is something I can get united on.

Pucky, Do you have profit sharing & benefits in your business? Years ago I worked for a small privately owned publishing company they did have union workers with apprentices that eventually worked their way into the union (bindery & pressmen). Just curious to know how things have changed over the last 46 years with small business which I would rather work for any day But with the option to join a union too.

[Puckstop31]

Pucky, Do you have profit sharing & benefits in your business? Years ago I worked for a small privately owned publishing company they did have union workers with apprentices that eventually worked their way into the union (bindery & pressmen). Just curious to know how things have changed over the last 46 years with small business which I would rather work for any day But with the option to join a union too.

Yes. At the end of the year, we give all employees a bonus based on net profit and time with the company. Nothing is guaranteed on that front, but we are open about it. We give a run down of the yearly financials at a special meeting in January. We also offer a health insurance plan and a 401k (Oppenheimer) with a 3% company match.

Also, we all get automatic raises for earning Microsoft certifications that help us get new competencies in the Microsoft Partner Program. That is a open offer and totally on the employee to do.

[Bonny]

The incentive to improve yourself as an employee & adding to the companies progressiveness is right up there. A+++