Politics and religion.

[cassiesmom]

Cassiesmom - Again, I am not a fan of unions - I have worked with them, negotiated with them and fought them. But the article you cited - is about as one sided as it gets.

p.s. Here's an article from last June that may give balance to the issue. Destroying public unions is not being drvien by the so-called "budget crisis" in Wisconsin - it is a strategy of the GOP.

union busting

But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.

Indeed the Chicago Tibune is conservative (but still my favorite paper!)

But this is an editorial. Not about facts - about his opinion. And he has been with the Tribune for ages and is very, very right wing.

Just look for the facts - and a little balance - on the situation. It will be around for at least the next two years...

[cassiesmom]

Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

Thanks,
elyse

[Puckstop31]

Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

Thanks,
elyse

Most governments in the world have rights based on the rights of men.

Here, it is the rights of man.

Individual vs. the collective. In a union, you all win or lose together. That is hte risk you take. On your own, you are free to pursue whatever you want. Go for it, per say. But on your own, you are also free to fail. Unions (generally speaking) protect those who fail. That is not how America is supposed to work.

Freedom is not safety. Its not equality. Its not even fair. Its FREEDOM. We have laws to try and protect your right to pursue your happiness but there is no guarantee of results....


"The greatest inequality of all is to try to make unequal things equal."
Aristotle


ETA:

Think about it this way.

What is the difference between "Yes WE can!" and "Yes I can!"

Adam Smith got it right a long time ago.

[Bonny]

Where's The Money Coming From For All This? Where Did The Money Go To? Is Someone Going Broke Or Are They Already Broke?

[Edwina's Secretary]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

[Grace]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

Similar thoughts go back further than the Founding Fathers. From Matthew 12:25 -

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

Lincoln used these works in an address he gave on June 16, 1858, in Springfield, Illinois, upon accepting the Illinois Republican Party's nomination as that state's United States senator.

[Puckstop31]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

Who is it that public employee unions collectively bargain against?

The taxpayer.

If that is the premise of public employee unions.... No thanks.

Any wonder why so many people are so against PUBLIC employee unions?

---

There are many people who believe in the unlimited power of the individual, when the individual is given the most Freedom possible to pursure their happiness. That does NOT mean we do not need each other.

United we stand. United by what? Love of country? God?

[wombat2u2004]

where's the money coming from for all this? Where did the money go to? Is someone going broke or are they already broke?

誰是你真正想擁有的國家呢？？？？它必須是中國...對嗎？？？
我認為貴國政府已錯失良機。

[Bonny]

誰是你真正想擁有的國家呢？？？？它必須是中國...對嗎？？？
我認為貴國政府已錯失良機。

Darn you hit the nail right on the head Wombat. Our States & Federal government don't have a pot to pee in anymore.