Politics and religion.

[cassiesmom]

Here's an editorial that helped me "get it" more with respect to the protests up in Madison, Wisconsin.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7841218.column

Sorry, public employees, but the private sector is being asked to make bigger contributions to our benefit packages and pensions and we are also seeing our pension plans drop. It's been different for you. I get that you're being asked to do more with less... welcome to my world!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

One thing I do know is if the President doesn't allow US companies to drill for oil in are own waters, we will be in deep dodo very very soon. Most of the countries we get our oil from are in turmoil. There is already talk of 5 to 7 dollars for a gallon of gas this summer.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Here's an editorial that helped me "get it" more with respect to the protests up in Madison, Wisconsin.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7841218.column

Sorry, public employees, but the private sector is being asked to make bigger contributions to our benefit packages and pensions and we are also seeing our pension plans drop. It's been different for you. I get that you're being asked to do more with less... welcome to my world!

Cassiesmom - Again, I am not a fan of unions - I have worked with them, negotiated with them and fought them. But the article you cited - is about as one sided as it gets. The public sector employees surely need their contracts reined in - but I do not think it is right to destroy them. If they agree to the economic consessions - why is it necessary to destroy the union - to take away their bargaining rights?

The saying is that employers that get a union deserve a union. Unions are designed to balance the playing field between employers and workers.

And once the public sector unions are gone - they will go after the private sector unions. It is all about power.

An interesting side note- what governor of California signed the legislature that brought public sector unions to California? Ronald Reagan.

So - cut back the benefits of public sector unions at the bargaining table.

p.s. Here's an article from last June that may give balance to the issue. Destroying public unions is not being drvien by the so-called "budget crisis" in Wisconsin - it is a strategy of the GOP.

union busting

[cassiesmom]

Cassiesmom - Again, I am not a fan of unions - I have worked with them, negotiated with them and fought them. But the article you cited - is about as one sided as it gets.

p.s. Here's an article from last June that may give balance to the issue. Destroying public unions is not being drvien by the so-called "budget crisis" in Wisconsin - it is a strategy of the GOP.

union busting

But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.

Indeed the Chicago Tibune is conservative (but still my favorite paper!)

But this is an editorial. Not about facts - about his opinion. And he has been with the Tribune for ages and is very, very right wing.

Just look for the facts - and a little balance - on the situation. It will be around for at least the next two years...

[cassiesmom]

Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

Thanks,
elyse

[Puckstop31]

Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

Thanks,
elyse

Most governments in the world have rights based on the rights of men.

Here, it is the rights of man.

Individual vs. the collective. In a union, you all win or lose together. That is hte risk you take. On your own, you are free to pursue whatever you want. Go for it, per say. But on your own, you are also free to fail. Unions (generally speaking) protect those who fail. That is not how America is supposed to work.

Freedom is not safety. Its not equality. Its not even fair. Its FREEDOM. We have laws to try and protect your right to pursue your happiness but there is no guarantee of results....


"The greatest inequality of all is to try to make unequal things equal."
Aristotle


ETA:

Think about it this way.

What is the difference between "Yes WE can!" and "Yes I can!"

Adam Smith got it right a long time ago.

[Bonny]

Where's The Money Coming From For All This? Where Did The Money Go To? Is Someone Going Broke Or Are They Already Broke?

[Puckstop31]

So - cut back the benefits of public sector unions at the bargaining table.

I agree 100%. I am really disappointed with how the WI GOP is handling this.

There is a HUGE difference about how you conduct business in a Republic. How things are going down in WI is NOT how a Republic should work. A pure Democracy? Yes. A Republic, no.


----

If I were the WI Gov.... I'd ask the union to turn their pension plan into a IRA or 401k. Most of us are responsible for our retirement, why should they get a guaranteed pension at taxpayer expense, no matter what comes?

[wombat2u2004]

Just borrow another couple of trillion folks, and all of your problems will be solved

http://dailybail.com/home/there-are-...g-part-ii.html

Now this lady REALLY knows what she is talking about.