Sex abuse in church

[Miss Z]

That's exactly right.
Just like you inbred rednecks who are the butt of our jokes.

Its like the Ausies are the most watched when it comes to the loving of sheep.

Oh dear!

It still astounds me how we have to hate on each other's countries so much on this forum.

Now, before I get back to my afternoon tea and biscuits and croquet...

Blue, I did find myself agreeing with the issue you raised about anti-Catholicism. I was quite surprised, when following this thread, about some of the choice words against them. My country has quite a history of falling out with Catholics , but I've yet to experience the same level of venom I've sensed here with the religious folk I know personally.

I think there is corruption in most religious sects, and as usual they ruin it for all the decent people.

It is fair to say, though, that everyone in this thread is agreed that these priests cannot, and should not be able to, hide behind the shroud of their faith and should be tried and punished as anyone else would. That is the real cause for outcry in this issue, not the Catholic way of living.

I think I may have posted a thread about it a long while ago; there was a vicar in my area who was convicted for downloading indecent images of kids. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I don't remember exactly what type of Church he belonged to, but it was certainly not a Catholic one.

Back to the marriage issue - he had it all. Wife, kids, nice house, lots of friends. One day, his son discovers the images. Frustrated, or just wrongly wired in the head?

These people turn up in all walks of life, just when it occurs in a religious group, where we expect everyone to be perfect, it feels all the more damning.

This thread should not be used as a chance for a pop at the Catholics.

[Marigold2]

Wom, you words are so eloquently put and so spot on. I could not agree with you more.

A few things I would like to add. It should not matter if these crimes were commited last week or in the last 30 years, children suffered, lives were runined. Their suffering was not less 30 years ago, in fact it was probably greater since people did not speak up as much as they do today. These people Blue are still in great, great pain.

If one judges a persons behavior by past actions then one must take into account tha fact that if it was sweep under the rug and they were not punished in the past, the behavior has continued and perhaps become more brazen.

I have nothing against the church. My nephew Michael is considering priesthood. However I fear for him. Will he be abused by those higher up as has been mentioned on this thread?


LONDON – Protests are growing against Pope Benedict XVI's planned trip to Britain, where some lawyers question whether the Vatican's implicit statehood status should shield the pope from prosecution over sex crimes by pedophile priests.
More than 10,000 people have signed a petition on Downing Street's web site against the pope's 4-day visit to England and Scotland in September, which will cost U.K. taxpayers an estimated 15 million pounds ($22.5 million). The campaign has gained momentum as more Catholic sex abuse scandals have swept across Europe.
Although Benedict has not been accused of any crime, senior British lawyers are now examining whether the pope should have immunity as a head of state and whether he could be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction for an alleged systematic cover-up of sexual abuses by priests.
Universal jurisdiction — a concept in international law — allows judges to issue warrants for nearly any visitor accused of grievous crimes, no matter where they live. British judges have been more open to the concept than those in other countries.
Lawyers are divided over the immunity issue. Some argue that the Vatican isn't a true state, while others note the Vatican has national relations with about 170 countries, including Britain. The Vatican is also the only non-member to have permanent observer status at the U.N.
Then again, no other top religious leaders enjoy the same U.N. privileges or immunity, so why should the pope?
David Crane, former chief prosecutor at the Sierra Leone war crimes tribunal, said it would be difficult to implicate the pope in anything criminal.
"It's a fascinating kind of academic, theoretical discussion," said Crane, who prosecuted Sierra Leone's Charles Taylor when he was still a sitting head of state. "At this point, there's no liability at all."

This article continues, it's under Yahoo's home page.
So you see others too question weather the pope should be in jail.

If one commits a crime it cannot matter who one is.
The law applies to all weather you are a Catholic, a Buddist or a Lutheran. Wrong is wrong.

As a Catholic Blue I wonder why you would not want to take an active part in cleaning this mess up as much as one can and helping rid the church of sex abuse. Don't you want to make the Catholic church better?

[wombat2u2004]

As a Catholic Blue I wonder why you would not want to take an active part in cleaning this mess up as much as one can and helping rid the church of sex abuse. Don't you want to make the Catholic church better?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Hmmmm....maybe from a Catholics point of view, it's acceptable behaviour.

[kokopup]

I guess we need to restate the point of the thread. We all acknowledge that Pedophilia/homosexuality/illicit heterosexual behavior exist in all segments of the world, even all religions. The problem at least from a Pedophilia and homosexuality standpoint is when a crime is committed against children and the guilty goes unpunished. If a Baptist Paster committed an offense against a child, not only would he/she lose their church but they would go to jail. In addition once he/she was released from jail they would have to register as a sex offender. There is no one in our church hierarchy that would sweep it under the rug. I personally have not heard of a minister having relations with a child but I have seen several caught having affairs with either coworkers or members of the church. The one case I can speak first hand about , the minister had heterosexual relations with a coworker, and he was forced to retire. The church I went to had a church worker found accessing gay porn on his computer and he was immediately dismissed. Since neither of these cases were committed against a child there were no civil laws violated. In both cases though there were consequences for their actions.

[wombat2u2004]

I guess we need to restate the point of the thread. We all acknowledge that Pedophilia/homosexuality/illicit heterosexual behavior exist in all segments of the world, even all religions. The problem at least from a Pedophilia and homosexuality standpoint is when a crime is committed against children and the guilty goes unpunished. If a Baptist Paster committed an offense against a child, not only would he/she lose their church but they would go to jail. In addition once he/she was released from jail they would have to register as a sex offender. There is no one in our church hierarchy that would sweep it under the rug. I personally have not heard of a minister having relations with a child but I have seen several caught having affairs with either coworkers or members of the church. The one case I can speak first hand about , the minister had heterosexual relations with a coworker, and he was forced to retire. The church I went to had a church worker found accessing gay porn on his computer and he was immediately dismissed. Since neither of these cases were committed against a child there were no civil laws violated. In both cases though there were consequences for their actions.

Agreed Bill.
Who in their right mind would want a child molester to go unpunished ???
Someone who believes it's not a crime on one hand, but on the other represents the Kingdom of Heaven ????
Sounds like a bit of a contradiction to me.
Is not the person who hides the criminal as guilty as the criminal ????
Let's forget about power and position, and make these people be subjected to the laws of the land.
After all.....wasn't Nixon and Clinton held accountable for their crimes ???
(And their crimes were miniscule compared to child sexual abuse).

[Alysser]

Oh dear!

It still astounds me how we have to hate on each other's countries so much on this forum.

Now, before I get back to my afternoon tea and biscuits and croquet...

Blue, I did find myself agreeing with the issue you raised about anti-Catholicism. I was quite surprised, when following this thread, about some of the choice words against them. My country has quite a history of falling out with Catholics , but I've yet to experience the same level of venom I've sensed here with the religious folk I know personally.

I think there is corruption in most religious sects, and as usual they ruin it for all the decent people.

It is fair to say, though, that everyone in this thread is agreed that these priests cannot, and should not be able to, hide behind the shroud of their faith and should be tried and punished as anyone else would. That is the real cause for outcry in this issue, not the Catholic way of living.

I think I may have posted a thread about it a long while ago; there was a vicar in my area who was convicted for downloading indecent images of kids. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I don't remember exactly what type of Church he belonged to, but it was certainly not a Catholic one.

Back to the marriage issue - he had it all. Wife, kids, nice house, lots of friends. One day, his son discovers the images. Frustrated, or just wrongly wired in the head?

These people turn up in all walks of life, just when it occurs in a religious group, where we expect everyone to be perfect, it feels all the more damning.

This thread should not be used as a chance for a pop at the Catholics.

Great choice of words, Zara. I agree with you completely.

[wombat2u2004]

Well golly gee !!!!
We are accused of taking a pop at the church ???
Now I've REALLY got my dander up !!!!

Bill and Blue....we should discuss this over tea and cucumber sandwiches.

[Marigold2]

Would be interesting to hear from some who have been abused. What punishment would they dole out and what would they suggest to keep futher gernerations safe from this abuse?

[wombat2u2004]

Would be interesting to hear from some who have been abused. What punishment would they dole out and what would they suggest to keep futher gernerations safe from this abuse?

Nawwwww....we can't do that.
We might be accused of attacking the church.

[Catty1]

The people who were abused as children might very well want to attack the church. Pedophiles in the church should not be immune to prosecution, as seems to have been the case - they are too well covered up.

[wombat2u2004]

The people who were abused as children might very well want to attack the church. Pedophiles in the church should not be immune to prosecution, as seems to have been the case - they are too well covered up.

That's the real point here isn't it ??? It's not about attacking anyones church.
It's about bringing to justice those who are free to commit the same crimes again and again against our children.
We can discuss this further in the "Tea and Cookies on top of the Pennines" forum on Facebook if you wish (a children free forum).

[Miss Z]

Would be interesting to hear from some who have been abused. What punishment would they dole out and what would they suggest to keep futher gernerations safe from this abuse?

This would indeed be an interesting perspective. From news reports, the parents of the abused Irish children certainly have a thing or two in mind. I reckon, however, that it couldn’t be coaxed from the mouths of the victims on moral grounds by police, or media, or whoever else wants to know. Too much dredging up of awful memories. I can’t fathom what that would be like.

[pomtzu]

I was really rather enjoying PT these past few months, without all the accusations, name calling, insults, and other generally rude behavior that goes along as part of the package. I knew it was too good to last!!!

If the shoe fits...........

[Lady's Human]

If the topic can't be discussed without personal comments, then perhaps it shouldn't be discussed here. Personal disputes have no place here, Dog House or otherwise.

The Catholic Church in the US has lost much of its legal shield, perhaps it is time for other countries to follow suit. John J. Geoghan certainly destroyed any shred of secrecy for the Boston archdiocese.

[Karen]

Let's keep it civil, this is still Pet Talk.

From the formerly abused children I have known all many want is it to never happen to another child again, and for the crime to be treated as a crime.