Don't ask, Don't tell

[LokiDog]

I have a solution. End all war on the planet. That way we would have no need for the military in any form. Just service organizations to respond to natural disasters and such.

But aside from that - people are people, gay or straight, black or white...
PEOPLE should have the right to pursue any occupation they desire.

[Lady's Human]

But aside from that - people are people, gay or straight, black or white...
PEOPLE should have the right to pursue any occupation they desire.

In an ideal world, yes.

But in an ideal world, we wouldn't need the military.

As an aside, does that mean my wife, who has a minor physical disability, should be able to be a soldier if she wants?

Or should I be able to be an F-15 pilot, despite the fact I wear glasses?

[Catherinedana]

To quote a tanker, you're in the field for weeks on end with four guys in a small space, how would you like it if you thought the loader who's staring at the TC's butt for weeks on end was checkin you out? Ain't gonna deal with that, bro.

Then the problem is here. . .and it's a matter of prejudice and wrong-thinking, caused by some irrational fear? Who knows. Does everyone out there who is not gay really believe that a gay man has no control over his sexual urges? In a word, ridiculous.

[Lady's Human]

It may be ridiculous to you, but there are many, many things in the military a civilian would find ridiculous.

[Puckstop31]

Then the problem is here. . .and it's a matter of prejudice and wrong-thinking, caused by some irrational fear? Who knows. Does everyone out there who is not gay really believe that a gay man has no control over his sexual urges? In a word, ridiculous.

To answer this and all the similar comments....

It doesn't matter if it's 'irrational'. All that matters is that it WILL happen. There is simply no way to explain what it means to be part of a team on the pointy end of the spear unless you have been there. ANYthing that takes focus off the mission is a hazard. Are there other things, not related in any way to DADT that cause lack of focus? Sure. Is it a good idea to add another in one fell swoop? Probably not.

LH mentioned a story about a tanker.... I was an armor crewman (tanker) most of my military career. LH is right. There is little like the need to act as one as there is in a tank crew. The crew needs to act in harmony to get the job done. Personally, I would have no problem with a open homosexual on my crew, as long as he was just another guy in the crew. If they want to shove their sexuality around, problem. But that's just me. I worked with other, otherwise OUTSTANDING soldiers, who would have a huge issue with having gay crewmembers.


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Like I said in my original couple of posts... In the long term, this is probably a good thing as long as it is implemented slowly and on the forces terms. Because, as has been said, this has ZERO to do with the physical or mental ability of homosexuals to perform the job. Its about what it does to team dynamics.

[Catherinedana]

It may be ridiculous to you, but there are many, many things in the military a civilian would find ridiculous.

I am absolutely clueless regarding military life and responsibilities so I guess I can only speak from my own civilian and very liberal up-bringing. Guess that's why it doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps having such a diversity of people in my life has made me immune to some of the differences? I just can't think in that direction. . . and sometimes it is very hard for me to hear others speak negatively about people because of beliefs or orientations or making sweeping, all-inclusive statements like the one I quoted previously. ?Sometimes I forget that my experience is not everyone's experience. My bad, as they say.

[LokiDog]

In an ideal world, yes.

But in an ideal world, we wouldn't need the military.

As an aside, does that mean my wife, who has a minor physical disability, should be able to be a soldier if she wants?

Or should I be able to be an F-15 pilot, despite the fact I wear glasses?

I think if she or you wants to be part of the military, you have that right. As long as you feel you are capable - and can prove it - you should be allowed to. There are many paths in life that you have to prove your capabilities... pass the bar to be a lawyer, pass the MCAT to get into medical school... I think if you are able to prove yourself in your chosen field, you should be allowed to do it.
Things should NEVER be based on you race, sexual orientation...

But aside from all that, to answer you questions. If we have no military on the planet. Why would you fly F-15's?

[Puckstop31]

I am absolutely clueless regarding military life and responsibilities so I guess I can only speak from my own civilian and very liberal up-bringing. Guess that's why it doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps having such a diversity of people in my life has made me immune to some of the differences? I just can't think in that direction. . . and sometimes it is very hard for me to hear others speak negatively about people because of beliefs or orientations or making sweeping, all-inclusive statements like the one I quoted previously. ?Sometimes I forget that my experience is not everyone's experience. My bad, as they say.

Well, you might not understand why things like LH said are true. But those things in the military that civilians would never understand, happen for a REASON.

[Puckstop31]

I think if she or you wants to be part of the military, you have that right. As long as you feel you are capable - and can prove it - you should be allowed to. There are many paths in life that you have to prove your capabilities... pass the bar to be a lawyer, pass the MCAT to get into medical school... I think if you are able to prove yourself in your chosen field, you should be allowed to do it.
Things should NEVER be based on you race, sexual orientation...

But aside from all that, to answer you questions. If we have no military on the planet. Why would you fly F-15's?

I think you are missing the part about this not having ANYthing to do with ability.

[wombat2u2004]

Has anyone any thoughts on rank structure ????
Say for instance.........the sergeant is gay and the private in his outfit is not gay.
I know that if the powers that be did approve of gays in the forces, then they would certainly have new military laws against pulling rank in sexual situations.
But that wouldn't stop the sergeant from giving that private a bad time on the side....would it ????
And how would the private treat that, if say for instance the sergeant made sexual advances on him privately.......the poor old private would have no defence in a military court.
Where would it stop ????? Look at the problems in the military now with both men and women.....sexual harassment cases all the time....even rape !!!!!

[Karen]

It is completely and absolutely forbidden to "pull rank" and demand sexual favors ever within the military, regardless of sexuality. It may happen anyway, but it IS absolutely against the rules.

I am all for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" being lifted, as long as it is done correctly, and with thought about the situations people are in. And in my opinion, it shouldn't be anyone's business and if someone does not WANT to reveal his or her sexuality, it should not be forced.

[Lady's Human]

It is completely and absolutely forbidden to "pull rank" and demand sexual favors ever within the military, regardless of sexuality. It may happen anyway, but it IS absolutely against the rules.

It happens, and it frequently happens in the reverse, as well.

Many Drill Sergeants have had their careers ended by charges of that nature.

Whether or not the charges held up is immaterial. Once the integrity of a sergeant is challenged in that manner, they're DONE. It is incredibly easy for a Private to end the career of a Drill Sergeant.

It's easier to recover your career from a DUI or drug offense.

[RICHARD]

Or should I be able to be an F-15 pilot, despite the fact I wear glasses?

You can get yourself a huge honkin watch if get past that requirement.

--------------

I love this story and this shows the difference between the civilian and military way of life. Some of you have heard it before..

A soldier was looking in a catalogue for a replacement zipper.

He looked under the letter "Z" until he gave up and went to a sargeant who told him he would never find it there.


It's under the letter "I"!


Interlocking Slide Fastener

[wombat2u2004]

It happens, and it frequently happens in the reverse, as well.

Many Drill Sergeants have had their careers ended by charges of that nature.

Whether or not the charges held up is immaterial. Once the integrity of a sergeant is challenged in that manner, they're DONE. It is incredibly easy for a Private to end the career of a Drill Sergeant.

It's easier to recover your career from a DUI or drug offense.

Then if the law is passed, won't the problems you already have in the military become greater ????

[Lady's Human]

Yep.

And not just the issues with Drill Sergeants.