Global warming

[kokopup]

Richard
If the globe is warming, why are people dressed in giant down jackets?

With global warming the ocean currents that have a major effect on our climate are/'and will' be altered. Places in northern Europe and the British islands that are now still fairly warm will become colder because the course of the Gulf stream will be altered. Rather than warming these places will become colder.

Warming in the arctic will cause other places in the world to become colder
and the weather everywhere will become more unpredictable because of
ocean currents and jet streams being altered..

All of the naysayers need to read all of the evidence not just that written by
oil company lobbyist.

[Puckstop31]

All of the naysayers need to read all of the evidence not just that written by
oil company lobbyist.

I HAVE.

Is the climate changing? Yes. Is it mainly because of human activity? NO.

So, the daming nature of the recent discoveries of the PURPOSELY faulty pro-man made warming evidence does not move you?

And see... It IS being made a political issue. "Oil Company Lobbyist..."

Why don't you complain about Microsoft? KRAFT? They make a bigger profit margin than the oil companies.

Like it or not... Abundant and cheap energy is why we can live the way we do. Want to live in the 17th century? I can.... Did you ever stop to wonder why a gallon of gas costs LESS than a gallon of Lipton Iced Tea?

"Oil Company Lobbyist..." Please....

[kokopup]

Puckstop31 quote
I HAVE.

Is the climate changing? Yes. Is it mainly because of human activity? NO.

So, the daming nature of the recent discoveries of the PURPOSELY faulty pro-man made warming evidence does not move you?

And see... It IS being made a political issue. "Oil Company Lobbyist..."

Why don't you complain about Microsoft? KRAFT? They make a bigger profit margin than the oil companies.

Like it or not... Abundant and cheap energy is why we can live the way we do. Want to live in the 17th century? I can.... Did you ever stop to wonder why a gallon of gas costs LESS than a gallon of Lipton Iced Tea?

"Oil Company Lobbyist..." Please....

It is hard to believe that anyone can deny that man is not having a major role in creating Global warming. You can call it global trashing if you would like to. Man in concert with the Sun is wreaking havoc on this planet. You don't have to be a IPCC scientist to see the evidence, it is everywhere. I can not believe any recent discoveries brought forth by either side because both sides have been guilty of playing with the numbers to satisfy their agenda. It has been going on since the 70's when the Fed came up with emission standards. All Detroit did was stroke all their engines to improve volumetric efficiency but they were now polluting more than ever but on paper it looked better.

If there has been some big conspiracy to make money off of global warming as Blue contends then I guess there was an “OJ conspiracy” too.

Political issue? It has always been a political issue.

Why not complain about Kraft or MS? I haven't seen either polluting our planet. I am not against business making a good profit , I'm opposed to them making it at the expense of our planet. I realize the enormous price we all pay to have cheap everything. There is a cost to our environment when we get cheap gas or cheap electricity. I know that to correct the problem of trashing our planet we ALL have to pay a price, and I am on board with any move that will do that. I know that any action we take today may take even centuries to have an effect. That is no excuse for not doing anything. It seems the US is the only hold out toward make meaningful changes.

The Bush administration acknowledged early on that warming was a real problem but chose to take an adaptive approach rather than any proactive steps that would have cost to big business. It is easier and cheaper to stomp out the fires than to prevent them.

I am one who feels most of Washington's ills could be corrected by making all lobbying a crime. I retired from GE the company with more lobbyist than anyone. They were there looking out for GE and their interest. It is a well documented fact that during the Bush era he did have lobbyist writing bills for him so why would you doubt that oil company lobbyist had any influence on global warming propaganda, be it discrediting scientific data or any other tactic that can be conceived.

I have posted very little on this thread and it seems that all of the positions have been stated and restated and I have yet to see anyone change sides. It would seem that the original question of this thread has been addressed, let it die.

[Puckstop31]

Kokopup... I hear ya.

As I see it, the big focus right now is CO2 emissions are the big evil in the eyes of governments.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138


Why? Why when there are so many other things, things that are MUCH more damaging to the environment?

[kokopup]

I am still a believer in global warming. Whether co2 is the cause I am not in a position to say for sure. I do Know that our green house gases, which co2 is one of, are out of control. All of the gases carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons and sulfur hexafluoride are now at an unprecedented levels.

I can't put to much stock in all the 100 rebuttals presented by the link you gave me since the European foundation has it'd on agenda. Any unified approval of ANY Proposal by the EC/EU will go against their agenda to reform the EC/EU into a community of free-trading, sovereign states.

The increase in co2 emissions can be blamed on the almost 7 billion inhabitant of our planet since we are the largest single source, we need to make the changes that will help balance this known increase. Clear cutting of forest is destroying just one of the co2 equilizers, and there are many more that man controls. If every one would only breath when their face starter turning blue, this would help also.

Whether they blame our current world conditions on co2 or methane is of little importance. The facts remain we are polluting our planet and MAN is the cause, so we have got to be the solution. If we make our planet unlivable by man, then the problem will work itself out in a million or so years while the cockroaches have free run.

Solving our current crisis is going to cost every one, since the problems have been ignored to long it may be very costly.

[Puckstop31]

I appreciate your candor. Your willingness to say it how you see it.

One way or the other, the only way to save ourselves is for there to be less of ourselves? Is that what you are saying? I ask this not out of spite... I am genuinely curious.

If less consumption is the way to saving ourselves... OK. But I grew up on a farm. I know it takes a LOT of fossil fuel and other rather nasty things to pull 150-190 bushells of corn/acre.

What happens when a excessive cost of energy makes food impossibly expensive for a large part of the world? Is this the cost you speak of?

Fear and hunger have been the weapons of despots since the dawn of man... I hope we are better than that. We did put a man on the moon after all.

[kokopup]

I do believe that we all will have to make sacrifices if we are to emerge from this crisis. I'm not advocating going back to horse and buggy or tilling our crops by mule and plow, but there are ways to improve how our resources are being used. If you want to drive a gas hog , ok, we can have a gas guzzeler tax but lower the mpg that qualifies for gas guzzler. With the bailout that our government gave the US auto industry you would think they would change their tactics, but it is just business as usual so we are damned to repeat. Unfortunately the average American just doesn't get it. If they can afford to drive a big car it's their right. Right?

We did put men on the moon , and i can say I was among those that made it possible. I am a believer that given the right incentives our men of science can find better ways of utilizing our resources, and finding sources that are today not known.

I guarantee you if we were faced with fossil fuel being depleted in 10 years there would be a break through in alternative energy before that happened.

When it comes to having enough food to feed the world because of the cost of producing enough, nature has always had a remedy for such eventualities. Rather than say "survival of the fittest" you can say survival will depend on your ability to adapt. Today we have thousands of people dieing of starvation all over the world purely because they are unable to adapt through no fault of their own. We have people dieing because of the despot or Warlord and we are helpless to assist. If new methods and energy are not found man is going to out grow this planet. Soon! We are destined to repeat history.