Government run health care

[RICHARD]

With the exception of one GP, every doctor I have been to has had some form of testing capabilities in his office or is affiliated (group practice) with a business within the practices.

Example: over 20 years ago, I went through chemotherapy. The doctor treating me did all the testing in his office. All of the administration was done in his office. The surgery and radiation, however, was not done in his office but in the hospital. That was in the city of Philadelphia.

And then?

Read what I said VERY CAREFULLY.

MOST docs here in the U.S. do not have the equipment or facilities to perform half the tests they want to do.

I will say that I stated an incomplete thought here.......I should have added "on the premises".

My mistake and I will and do take the 'thump' for that.

Go back to your physician (GP) with some kind of funky arsed skin, bone, hearing or sight problems and see how fast he passes you off to a specialist.

A urinalysis, CBC, blood sugar and all the simple shiat can be done in a 'office lab". That is like going to a garage on the corner and having him check for a discharged battery. He can tell you THAT much, but you will have to go to the dealer so he can hook up the computer and tell you if it's an alternator, generator, comp chip, short or you left the key in the on position.

In case you didn't pay attention to the sign on the Dr's. door?
GP and Surgeon are two different animals. Get a Surgeon who specializes and that is another animal from the same family.

LOL,
You have such wonderful words for the doctor's you have seen for your health problems, yet you slam them for the money they make?

Next time, find a nice herbal store or holistic healer for a health problem.
Cheaper and they don't have to charge their patients for mal pract ins.
If you have the time, check out how doctors bill the gov't. and how long they wait to get paid for YOUR visit.
YOU get immediate satisfaction for your treatment and the poor MD has to wait for money from BO and his ilk.

Next time you feel sick, shop around for a GP, Phys or Specialist for a discount rate or one that take coupons.


Here's the twist,
I do not have all the answers and if you think I do, you need to take a giant grain of salt (LOL buy a salt lick and chase that) - watch your blood pressure.


I don't know what I am talking about because I only worked for 30 years in the HC arena.......I was probably effing asleep for 29.76 of those years so I really don't know what I am talking about.


I am surprised that an ordinary consumer has such an inordinate, intimate knowledge of HC.

P.S. I really don't care for doctors, but some of the BS that people shout from the roof tops is total cat crap, it behooves me to let it ride. I see you do not have all the answers, so you are just as handicapped as I am.

[Grace]

If you have the time, check out how doctors bill the gov't. and how long they wait to get paid for YOUR visit.
YOU get immediate satisfaction for your treatment and the poor MD has to wait for money from BO and his ilk.

I get these statements from Medicare - they pay first. Then I get statements from my secondary insurance. I really can't believe the amount of time that passes between visit and final payment. No wonder some doctors get fed up and don't want to deal with Medicare.

I also see what Medicare will pay for diabetic supplies. Not near enough to reimburse my supplier.

HOWEVER, Richard, the money does not come from the President, be it Obama, Bush, Clinton. All this was in place long before any of them even thought of becoming president. Remember, LBJ - back in 1965. Why I bet you were just a young whipper-snapper back then?

[RICHARD]

I get these statements from Medicare - they pay first. Then I get statements from my secondary insurance. I really can't believe the amount of time that passes between visit and final payment. No wonder some doctors get fed up and don't want to deal with Medicare.

I also see what Medicare will pay for diabetic supplies. Not near enough to reimburse my supplier.

HOWEVER, Richard, the money does not come from the President, be it Obama, Bush, Clinton. All this was in place long before any of them even thought of becoming president. Remember, LBJ - back in 1965. Why I bet you were just a young whipper-snapper back then?

Don't you comment about my whipper snapper! LOLOLOL,
I know the money doesn't come from the Presidents.

I was making that statement as a slam about how slow the gov't. moves when it comes to billing. You know by now I am a little confused about how things work.

[Grace]

Don't you comment about my whipper snapper! LOLOLOL,

I'll do my best to avoid that subject from now on

[Edwina's Secretary]

I recently had a phone call from a medical facility - NOT the government - a provider. Wanted to know what they should do with an overpayment my husband made....

over 12 months ago.

You should also check out how long doctors wait for payment from private insurance companies.

Had a letter recently from a provider...my insurer was taking so long to pay they wanted me to ante up. Very threatening.

Private insurers are slow pay as well.

[Marigold2]

It can take over a year for private insurance companies to pay and in some cases two years. I fight with them all the time, it's part of my job. Often it is a mistake on the patients part, they didn't have the right insurance card, or the receptionist or billers fault as they didn't enter the data correct or submit correct or it could be the processing company, the electronic biller or just the insurance company having some fun with you. I send patients bills that are two years old because that is how long it took for us to get the claim paid after fighing to get the correct insurance card from said patient, submitting it once, then again and again and doing an appeal. Such fun, can't even tell you. Finally after 19 months they pay $6.53, the rest went toward your deductable and now I am sending you a bill for $235.78. If you have a question please feel free to call your insurance company, what you mean you haven't done that yet? Well...................................

I recently had a phone call from a medical facility - NOT the government - a provider. Wanted to know what they should do with an overpayment my husband made....

over 12 months ago.

You should also check out how long doctors wait for payment from private insurance companies.

Had a letter recently from a provider...my insurer was taking so long to pay they wanted me to ante up. Very threatening.

Private insurers are slow pay as well.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was talking with a neighbor. She worked at United for over 30 years. She did all different jobs. She was a flight attendant, worked the ticket counter - even did lost luggage.

She could tell all sorts of stories about working at United.

She didn't know so much about other airlines.

However, I would not consider her an authority on how to fix a jet engine. Or fly a plane. Or run an airlines.

Just because someone worked in or for an industry does not make them an expert on or about that industry!

Opps! Forgot the required snarky remark..."I have to laugh here!"

[RICHARD]

Stunned? It's medical fact. Not like it's my opnion, or anything.

To echo ES, I don't understand how you don't know this if you indeed worked in a medical environment, but I'll explain it for you anyway.

Pathogens, bacteria in particular, undergo mutation in a number of their population. The change in their genotype may give them an immunity to the effects of a drug. Most of the time, it doesn't. But sometimes it does.

Under normal circumstances, i.e. without the presence of drugs, the typical strains and the mutated, resitant organism live alongside each other, in the ileum, for example. The strains compete with one another to survive. In these conditions, the resistant organism have no advantage over the typical strains, and it is highly likely that the resistant organism will die out. Thus, it's resistant gene is lost.

However, introduce a drug into the environment. All the typical strains are destroyed, but the resistant organism remains. It now has no competition and is able to reproduce quite happily, each of it's daughter cells carrying this saving grace gene. The drug administered is rendered useless against the pathogen. The pathogen spreads to other people and now we have nothing effective to fight it.

That is how natural selection works - a change in the environment favouring a particular genotype, causing extinction and evolution.

The more drugs that are being exposed to the pathogens, the better conditons we are providing for much more dangerous strains. Plus, many bacteria are able to exchange genetic information via plasmids, or indeed their own DNA, to other species of pathogen, so the resistance genes are not limited to only one condition.

An example? Staphylococcus aureus! S.Aureus is present in your respiratory system and on the surface of your skin right now. Occasionally, it will cause a mild throat infection. At first, we treated it with penicillin, as pencillin was the wonder, cure-all drug at that time. Before long, penicillin no longer worked. At that time, no one really knew why.

Then this condition was treated with methicillin. It was oversubscribed as people wanted to keep popping these pills everytime they felt a bit hoarse. So we get methicillin-resistant staphyloccocus aureus. The first MRSA.

So then we're in a bit of trouble, and combat MRSA with vancomycin. We can't find anything else to administer but vancomycin. The inevitable happens. Now the most dangerous form of MRSA is Multiple Resistant Staphylococcus aureus.

So, again, it is practically and morally wrong to oversubscribe drugs.

WTF, do you think that I would say I didn't understand the "natural" albeit drug "engineered", pathogens?

Duh, I could have given you the "Pathogens are for Dummies" spiel.


I was looking for YOUR spin on the morality and "practically" of over PRESCRIBING of drugs.


Do you mean it's practically immoral?


If it's immoral and unpractical to overprescribe drugs that cause mutating pathogens, next time you go to the doctor, tell him to shove the prescription.

--------------------------

I wonder what immorality and 'practically' the physician, who gave my mom chemo therapy in a last ditch effort to keep her alive, was trying to perpetrate on her being. As our esteemed president alluded to before?
He may have wanted to keep her alive so he could make more money.


One thing that people are very shy and ignorant about is asking what meds they are give post-office visit. The physician will ask you about what you are allergic, what meds you already take and then he will prescribe you a med as he sees fit.

Yes, some doctors will prescribe front line meds because they are wont to give out the generics bcause the pharm companies have them in their pockets.

LOLOLOL,

Ask a physician/doctor/surgeon how many people do not give a flying shiat about WHAT they are given to take for their ills.

Some of them ask about the cure/meds they saw on House or Scrubs.


You say Toe may toe, I say flesh eating bacteria, "Doctor, save my life".

[Miss Z]

Oh goodness – here's the dummy back, I think you must have thrown it out your pram.

You know, RICHARD, I used to love your posts, as witty and as crazy as they were. You had such a way with words.

Now, when every other word is “shiat”, “crap”, “arsed”, “turd”, “BS” and a hundred and one other abbreviations that make trying to understand what you’re actually saying verging on the impossible, half the time I can’t be bothered to waste my energy on them.

Perhaps if you’d been clearer with your question, I could have answered it for you in the manner you desired. Evidently, I wasn’t the only one who didn’t understand what you were asking, as ES also took it to mean that you didn’t get the science behind superbugs.

Do you mean it's practically immoral?

No, obviously, that’s why I put an ‘and’ in between.

• Practically – in practice.
• Morally – well, if a medic has morals, then s/he works for the prevention of suffering due to disease. That doesn’t mean they dispense everything from flucloxacillin to fairy dust just to keep the patient happy. For yes, that is immoral.

If it's immoral and unpractical to overprescribe drugs that cause mutating pathogens, next time you go to the doctor, tell him to shove the prescription.

Pfft. Get over yourself. That wasn’t what I was saying and you’re blatantly aware of that.

If you need treatment, then you need it, no two questions about it. But, if people visit the doctor and expect to be prescribed something, then THAT is where the problem lies.

Gah, I thought you said you understood this. Drugs don’t cause mutations in pathogens. They’re happening all the time, regardless of what is happening around them. Drugs provide ideal environments for mutated strains.

Well, even if you didn’t need the biology lesson, it did me good. I’m applying for Vet. Med. this winter. At least I got a revision session out of it.

[Hellow]

My comment on Government-run healthcare, and I don't really care to read this entire thread, so bear with me if I sound like Captain Obvious:


You all do notice that the government has to get the money to pay for your healthcare from somewhere. Guess where they are going to get it from?

Taxes.
Which means taxes will go up.
With a couple million+ more people depending upon the government even more, who knows how much they will go up.
The entire thing comes back to slap us in the face in the span of a month or less.

Furthermore, you are placing your entire life in the hands of the Government, whether you like to admit it or not. So, instead of private corporations getting to decide whether you get treatment and live or not, the government is going to do it for them.


Congratulations.

[Edwina's Secretary]

My comment on Government-run healthcare, and I don't really care to read this entire thread, so bear with me if I sound like Captain Obvious:


Furthermore, you are placing your entire life in the hands of the Government, whether you like to admit it or not. So, instead of private corporations getting to decide whether you get treatment and live or not, the government is going to do it for them.


Congratulations.

Thank you for the congratulations! Why do you think it is better for private corporations, whose motive is profit - which they make by NOT paying claims - than the government?

And no, I am not putting my entire life in the hands of the government. What meaningless hyperbole! The government does not and will not decide what I eat, where I work, who I marry, where I live, etc. etc. etc. Poppycock statement you made.

As for my taxes paying for medical care...who on earth do you think pays for it now? The Tooth Fairy???

I and my employer pay insurance premiums. I and my employer pay taxes. The premiums paid by me and on my behalf cover my medical expenses, the medical expenses of other participants and their dependents and lazy pikers who don't bother paying premiums. The rest of the medical expenses are paid by the government - using my tax dollars.

This is one of my pet peeves in this discussion. People who don't have insurance and are proud of it.

If they need medical care they will get it. Broken bone, serious illness - they will not be turned away from the hospital.

Maybe, maybe...they will work out a payment over time. But...the hospital must pay its employees and suppliers NOW. So they must borrow money to cover those expenses while they wait for the pikers to pay.

And who pays the cost of borrowing money? And the services that don't get paid for by the recipient of the medical care?

Me. And you. If you have medical insurance. And/or pay taxes.

This debate is not about cost. It is about whether medical care for the people of this country should be determined by the profit motive of private corporations or the government that is chartered with the general welfare of its people.

Do you sound like Captain Obvious? No, you sound like Captain Doesn't Know What He Is Talking About.

[Marigold2]

You are correct, Medicare does pay fast and they pay well. Better then most insurances. That is why Dr's love it. Also on Medicare you have one year to file a claim with Anthem or Blue Cross you have 6 months, with United Health Care I believe it's 90 days.
As for those dreaded secondary insurances, someone has to send the Explaninton of Benefits from the primary usually Medicare to them on paper, sometimes if we are busy 5 or 6 months can go by before we get to some. It is not the insurance company that holds it up it is the Dr's office. The secondary sometimes only pay $5.00 or $6.00 so it isn't on the top of our list to do. We are trying to get the surgery claims out first that is where the big bucks are.
Dr's are not so fond of Medicaid or Wellcare or Caresource as they are very hard to collect form and they pay very little.
Where Medicare might pay $100.00 for an office visit, Caresource will only pay $20.00 for same visit. A Dr cannot run an office with mostly Caresource patients, he would be in the hole. No Dr will work for $20.00 an hour nor should they.

I get these statements from Medicare - they pay first. Then I get statements from my secondary insurance. I really can't believe the amount of time that passes between visit and final payment. No wonder some doctors get fed up and don't want to deal with Medicare.

I also see what Medicare will pay for diabetic supplies. Not near enough to reimburse my supplier.

HOWEVER, Richard, the money does not come from the President, be it Obama, Bush, Clinton. All this was in place long before any of them even thought of becoming president. Remember, LBJ - back in 1965. Why I bet you were just a young whipper-snapper back then?

[Edwina's Secretary]

That would help explain it...when we first moved to California five years ago I went looking for doctors here. I could not understand why so many of them said they were only accepting new patients who were on Medicare.

It was confusing to me at the time....

[Grace]

You are correct, Medicare does pay fast and they pay well. Better then most insurances. That is why Dr's love it. Also on Medicare you have one year to file a claim with Anthem or Blue Cross you have 6 months, with United Health Care I believe it's 90 days.
As for those dreaded secondary insurances, someone has to send the Explaninton of Benefits from the primary usually Medicare to them on paper, sometimes if we are busy 5 or 6 months can go by before we get to some. It is not the insurance company that holds it up it is the Dr's office. The secondary sometimes only pay $5.00 or $6.00 so it isn't on the top of our list to do. We are trying to get the surgery claims out first that is where the big bucks are.
Dr's are not so fond of Medicaid or Wellcare or Caresource as they are very hard to collect form and they pay very little.
Where Medicare might pay $100.00 for an office visit, Caresource will only pay $20.00 for same visit. A Dr cannot run an office with mostly Caresource patients, he would be in the hole. No Dr will work for $20.00 an hour nor should they.

I think you misread my post. I did not state that Medicare paid fast, nor do they pay well. I also stated that I now understand why some physicians will not take Medicare patients.

Medicare takes it own sweet time; then my backup takes over. My backup insurance is fantastic - it's the same thing I had when I was working.

And did you not see where I said this - I also see what Medicare will pay for diabetic supplies. Not near enough to reimburse my supplier.


Before I turned 65, my private insurance would pay pretty much all my diabetic supplies. Medicare is a disgrace as far as supplies go.

And don't even get me started on Medicare prescription drugs. We both have insurance that covers prescriptions, and both of them are far better than Medicare.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Then why would doctors only want Medicare patients?

Sincerely asking....