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Thread: Government run health care

  1. #121
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    An attempt to inject a bit of levity into this topic.

    From my mailbox -

    Government Health Plan


    The American Medical Association has weighed in on National Health Insurance. The Allergists voted to scratch it, but the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves. The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.

    The Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under a misconception. Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted. Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the Pediatricians said, 'Oh, Grow up!' The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it.

    Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing. The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow, and the Plastic Surgeons said, "This puts a whole new face on the matter." The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea. The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.

    In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the assholes in Washington.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    An attempt to inject a bit of levity into this topic.

    From my mailbox -
    ROFLMAO

    Thanks for posting that. Love it-love it-love it..........
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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    To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    The clock of life is wound but once and no man has the power
    To know just when the hands will stop - on what day, or what hour.
    Now is the only time you have, so live it with a will -
    Don't wait until tomorrow - the hands may then be still.
    ~~~~true author unknown~~~~

  3. #123
    LMAO @ the email....

    To get this slightly back on track, don't get me wrong. I'm in complete agreement with most of the country that SOMETHING has to be done with the morass of crap called health insurance.

    As I explained to someone privately, I'm one of the people who has been bitten repeatedly by the morass of red tape created by the insurance industry. (and I have what most people would consider very good insurance) However, a bill attempted to be rushed through the legislative process by an artificial deadline with little debate and damned near no reps reading the bill isn't the way to go.

    SOMETHING needs to be done, but given the scope of the industry and the effects any changes to the current law would have on people and the economy, there needs to be a long, open discussion about fixing the system, rather than trying to ramrod something through before Congress goes on vacation. IIRC, someone mentioned earlier that Medicare took 18 months of debate. This deserves no less, and probably needs more.

  4. #124
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    I found the article from the Times that I was referring to earlier in this thread, and thought it would be worth including here.

    Now, I don't overly agree with the tone of this report, but it does raise a few points that I found interesting, and shocking.

    I've highlighted the bits that stood out to me.

    America has no right to speak ill of our NHS

    Free healthcare is the mark of a civilised society. It is the one principle that unites British politicians across the spectrum

    Janice Turner

    Dear America, for some time now we’ve realised that far from being your special pal, you’re not that into us. We know the love — like the extradition treaty between us — flows mostly one way. For his military loyalty, our previous Prime Minister got yo-Blaired. For his exquisite hand-wrought presidential gifts, our present PM got White House gift shop tat. America, we sucked it up.

    You can diss our food, recoil at our personal hygiene, cast our RSC grandees as 2D villains, send Gwynnie and Madonna to patronise us, fingerprint us like criminals at your airports, mow down our sons in “friendly fire”. But as the rage over President Obama’s healthcare reforms descends into attack ads and town-hall gunfire, don’t you dare speak ill of our NHS.

    It is the one thing, in our digital, atomised, privatised, multi-ethnic age, that unites us; our irreducible essence, the very best of us. Healthcare free at the point of delivery is the principle upon which every politician across our spectrum — marginal self-publicists such as Daniel Hannan aside — now agrees. The NHS ministered to David Cameron’s brain-damaged son as tenderly as to Gordon Brown’s fatally ill infant girl. It shows that decency, fairness and compassion, the national traits we fear died with nobler generations, live on. That America does not have universal health-care, that 47 million of your citizens live in fear of getting ill, appals and, frankly, baffles us.

    The Republican National Committee can condemn the NHS as Orwellian or evil or “socialised”, but what it is, at root, is Christian.

    Perhaps not the kind of noisy, nosy, puffed-up Christianity that Senator Chuck Grassley, of Iowa, or Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia are most familiar with, one that applies its energies chiefly to shutting abortion clinics and preventing gay couples from sanctifying their love. It is the simple, quiet, industrious Christianity of chapel and kirk that, woven into the Labour movement, strived to do God’s work on Earth. I’m no Bible-basher, but I’m struggling to recall the verses in which the Good Samaritan asks for insurance details or Jesus bills Lazarus for “co-payments”.

    I happened to read Senator Grassley’s statement that in Britain the 77-year-old Ted Kennedy would not have received treatment for his brain tumour, at the bedside of my 86-year-old father. Mr Grassley’s view that “when you get to be 77, your life is considered less valuable under these [NHS] systems” seemed rather surreal, as my old pa, who collapsed at home, was brain- scanned until it was discovered that he had suffered a minor stroke. As a consultant attended him, physios assessed him and he was found a place in a rehabilitation unit, where he will spend a month recovering, I thought how the life of this elderly man — no high-born statesman but a person of modest means — was treated as immensely precious.

    Throughout this difficult week, in which I was plunged abruptly into the dark labyrinth that is geriatric care, I gave thanks that the least of my worries — and more importantly my father’s — was money.

    To be old, sick and poor is a ghastly fate, and worst among the Republicans’ disgraces is the alarm caused among America’s elderly, that Mr Obama will slash the Medicare system, which is their saviour. It is, as David Frum pointed out in these pages yesterday, a misconception that America has no state provision for its poor and elderly. Indeed, Medicare and Medicaid (for the poor) is so expensive that it is bankrupting your nation, America.

    But unlike the lean NHS, there’s a spare tyre of fat on the system and any Briton who has been treated in America can tell you where it lies: around the bellies of physicians grown corpulent on prescribing unnecessary treatment.

    To us it is unimaginable that a doctor would order a scan, pills, an invasive test, an operation even, not based on whether it will make us well but on how much he can charge. (We are revolted too by the drug company adverts nagging the sick to “ask your doctor to prescribe” some profitable new gimmick.) And if you are covered by Medicare or Medicaid, the doctor can pass this egregious fee on not to the insurance company but the taxpayer. Some even demand kickbacks from hospitals for referring patients. The scandal of unscrupulous US doctors milking state medicine makes our MPs’ expenses debacle seem like a minor dishonour. Yet why the uproar, the shots fired, when President Obama seeks to redirect tax dollars from doctors’ condos in Palm Beach to sick children?

    As with so many facets of US life, healthcare seems a mix of wasteful overconsumption and appalling need. In America a doctor delivers a baby with a battery of beeping machines and a bill that goes “ker-ching!”. Here a regular birth is attended only by a midwife. Once home, a British mother is visited for the first ten days by the same midwife, and a health visitor, has a free weekly drop-in clinic to answer her questions: a new American mom must muddle along alone. Which system works best? US infant mortality is a dreadful 6.3 per 1,000 births, Britain’s 4.8.

    When a British friend living in Los Angeles watched his wife give birth he prayed that she wouldn’t need a Caesarean section: they had funds only for a normal delivery. That your citizens are born into this unneeded stress ill befits the richest country in the world. My friend’s health insurance for a family of four costs £800 ($1,300) a month. Yet when his elder daughter had a developmental disorder requiring tests and therapy, the insurers balked. Every clinic visit was followed by a call haggling about what percentage they would cover. It is, he says, like arguing over your sick child’s body with a firm of car clampers. He and his wife paid $50,000, their entire life savings — 70 per cent of bankruptcies in America are caused by medical bills.

    In Britain the bureaucracy you fight is the hospital, in America it is in the insurance companies. Dealing with the NHS is like wrestling a Leviathan. The system is trying, rigid, oblique: the endless wait to see a doctor if there is no emergency, the senseless way everything stops at weekends, the noise in the wards, the defining mode of grace under pressure.

    But the NHS has one thing about it that is perfect — its underlying principle. Only when you can say that about your own health system, when no American suffers through lack of funds, will we permit you to point a damning finger at ours.

    Zimbabwe 07/13


  5. #125
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    That is hilarious, Gretchen!!!!! lol lol lol


    I've been Boo'd...
    Thanks Barry!

  6. Grace's post gave me giggles and Miss Z's gave me goosebumps!

    Many emotions on this issue...

  7. #127
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    But unlike the lean NHS, there’s a spare tyre of fat on the system and any Briton who has been treated in America can tell you where it lies: around the bellies of physicians grown corpulent on prescribing unnecessary treatment.

    To us it is unimaginable that a doctor would order a scan, pills, an invasive test, an operation even, not based on whether it will make us well but on how much he can charge.


    I have to laugh at this comment and question the person who wrote it.
    It show imagination and a facinating amount of stupidity.


    MOST docs here in the U.S. do not have the equipment or facilities to perform half the tests they want to do.

    They have to send people or blood, urine or biopsys off site to a lab. THe lab charges them to process the specimens.

    If a MD does not do a test, order a scan or exam and the patient goes for a second opinion and is found to be negligent, he is in for a lawsuit.

    There are only a few that would think about prescribing tests/exams to make money, Oh, you do have the doc that had to pay for the new x-ray machine he bought. But those AHs are few and far between.

    I worked for an HMO who was trying to cut costs by telling the doctors NOT to ask for 'unnecessary' tests or exams.

    The 'word' and emails ended up being made public-I think there were doctors who felt that they were put in very hard place as far as the care they were dispensing.


    What do you tell a patient that has XXXXXXXX and you were unable to help them because you were asked not to test them for it?

    ------------------

    Here's a dirty little secret about sutures, the pharm companies and implant devices.


    The companies who make them are vicious sellers of their components -
    Don't blame the doctors for prescribing pills - there are only so many meds made that can be given for illnesses.

    Same with stents, pacemakers, bone and other vessel replacement parts.

    Sutures?

    They come in so many versions it's like buying cigarettes.

    Dissolveable and non, thin and thick thread, needle size and shape, materials

    Our facility had entered into an agreement where the sales rep would come in and stock the shelves. The rep would bring in tons of sutures then charge the company, If suture was not used, it was taken off the shelves and replaced with suture that WAS used. The company was given credit for the unused suture and re-billed for the suture that was used.

    At a higher price.
    -----------------------

    Blaming the MD for the high price of HC is a crock of crap, a lie and shows how a 'journalist' can slant a topic to make anyone look bad.


    The idiot who wrote that article needs a proctoscopic exam to have her brain examined.

  8. My doctor sent me to a specialist for a sore on my ear. I waited one hour to see the specialist. He looked at my ear - wrote a prescription. I was there less than five minutes.

    His writing was so sloppy the drug store wrote - "put on right leg twice a day."

    I went back as instructed after two weeks. First appointment of the day. Waited an hour again.

    He looked at my ear. Said the cream didn't work. Less than five minutes again.

    So I still have the sore on my ear.

    AFTER my insurance paid that total of less than ten minutes cost me over $300.00.

    There is a guy who goes to my gym. He is a dermalogist. He drives a Bentley.

    I am not saying doctors are the whole problem. But then again neither did the author of the article Miss Z posted.

  9. #129
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    Richard, I beg to differ with you about Dr.s not having their own testing facilities

    With the exception of one GP, every doctor I have been to has had some form of testing capabilities in his office or is affiliated (group practice) with a business within the practices.

    Example: over 20 years ago, I went through chemotherapy. The doctor treating me did all the testing in his office. All of the administration was done in his office. The surgery and radiation, however, was not done in his office but in the hospital. That was in the city of Philadelphia.

    Example: just days ago, I visited a surgeon who did my xrays in his office. Two years ago, a different surgeon, different practice, did my xrays in his office. My GP does all his blood work, in his office. He has a bone density scanner in his office. And these last examples are in a rather small city in Vermont!

    I don't have any figures to support it, but my experience is that doctors caught on a long time ago, many of them in group practices that is, and they knew that there is money in having your own labs etc.

    Doctors are part of the problem with the sky high medical expenses, along with insurance companies, lawyers, misuse, and abuse! I haven't met a poor doctor yet, have you? Well, maybe the poor sucker who administered Michael Jackson that lethal dose.

    Richard, you make your statements to sound as though you have all the answers and you are RIGHT. I don't claim to have the answers by a long shot, but my experiences have NOT been what you claim doctors are about.....

    Sorry, I don't agree with your thinking.

    P. S. Oh, ES, did that thing on your right leg ever clear up?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by sasvermont View Post

    P. S. Oh, ES, did that thing on your right leg ever clear up?
    Right leg looks great...my right ear however is another matter

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    Right leg looks great...my right ear however is another matter

    It could have been worse. It could have been pre-surgery instructions.
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Today is the oldest you've ever been, and the youngest you'll ever be again.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  12. Quote Originally Posted by lizbud View Post
    It could have been worse. It could have been pre-surgery instructions.
    Wouldn't that have been a mess! Cut off my right leg instead of my right ear...

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post

    If a MD does not do a test, order a scan or exam and the patient goes for a second opinion and is found to be negligent, he is in for a lawsuit.

    What do you tell a patient that has XXXXXXXX and you were unable to help them because you were asked not to test them for it?

    ------------------
    That's not the point. It's not that patients aren't tested for something which is suspected, i.e. the symptoms are enough evidence to point towards a decent probability of one particular condition. It's when doctors start saying 'Well, it could be X, Y or Z, so therefore we'll give you treatment for all three, just in case.' That's what the article is getting at.

    Still, if doctors are under so much pressure from looming lawsuits should they practice under correct regulations (it is practically and morally wrong to oversubscribe drugs, as it promotes natural selection of pathogens), then I can understand why they would want to throw medication at you to keep you quiet.

    On the point that I highlighted about TV adverts pushing prescription drugs - I remember seeing a few such advertisements when I was over in the USA and finding them bizarre.

    From what I keep reading about this topic, both here and elsewhere, it seems that a lot of US citizens feel that an NHS system has the President/Prime Minister/whatever pushing all the buttons. That's incorrect. Our NHS is government controlled, but it is not party controlled. There's a massive difference.

    Zimbabwe 07/13


  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasvermont View Post
    With the exception of one GP, every doctor I have been to has had some form of testing capabilities in his office or is affiliated (group practice) with a business within the practices.

    Example: over 20 years ago, I went through chemotherapy. The doctor treating me did all the testing in his office. All of the administration was done in his office. The surgery and radiation, however, was not done in his office but in the hospital. That was in the city of Philadelphia.
    And then?

    Read what I said VERY CAREFULLY.

    MOST docs here in the U.S. do not have the equipment or facilities to perform half the tests they want to do.

    I will say that I stated an incomplete thought here.......I should have added "on the premises".

    My mistake and I will and do take the 'thump' for that.

    Go back to your physician (GP) with some kind of funky arsed skin, bone, hearing or sight problems and see how fast he passes you off to a specialist.

    A urinalysis, CBC, blood sugar and all the simple shiat can be done in a 'office lab". That is like going to a garage on the corner and having him check for a discharged battery. He can tell you THAT much, but you will have to go to the dealer so he can hook up the computer and tell you if it's an alternator, generator, comp chip, short or you left the key in the on position.

    In case you didn't pay attention to the sign on the Dr's. door?
    GP and Surgeon are two different animals. Get a Surgeon who specializes and that is another animal from the same family.

    LOL,
    You have such wonderful words for the doctor's you have seen for your health problems, yet you slam them for the money they make?

    Next time, find a nice herbal store or holistic healer for a health problem.
    Cheaper and they don't have to charge their patients for mal pract ins.
    If you have the time, check out how doctors bill the gov't. and how long they wait to get paid for YOUR visit.
    YOU get immediate satisfaction for your treatment and the poor MD has to wait for money from BO and his ilk.

    Next time you feel sick, shop around for a GP, Phys or Specialist for a discount rate or one that take coupons.


    Here's the twist,
    I do not have all the answers and if you think I do, you need to take a giant grain of salt (LOL buy a salt lick and chase that) - watch your blood pressure.


    I don't know what I am talking about because I only worked for 30 years in the HC arena.......I was probably effing asleep for 29.76 of those years so I really don't know what I am talking about.


    I am surprised that an ordinary consumer has such an inordinate, intimate knowledge of HC.

    P.S. I really don't care for doctors, but some of the BS that people shout from the roof tops is total cat crap, it behooves me to let it ride. I see you do not have all the answers, so you are just as handicapped as I am.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Z View Post
    (it is practically and morally wrong to oversubscribe drugs, as it promotes natural selection of pathogens)
    Please explain that sentence.

    I am sitting here, stunned.

    And give me an example-I'm stripping my brain thinking about this.
    --------------


    A group of doctors delivered a petition to congress with the sigs of 10,000 docs who want to be included in the HCR issue.....


    LOLOLOLOL,

    again, having a bunch of docs chiming in to have a say in what would be good for HCR......

    What experience do they have and would they sound like they have all the answers/

    Probably not. they are just looking after themselves and the money they make.

    Eff me to tears.

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