Does anyone watch Dog Whisperer?

[IRescue452]

I don't like him either. While he may know how to train a dog (although I don't think much of his pack is trained, they're just scared of the authority figure), he doesn't know how to physically care for a dog.

He does some very dangerous things on the show, and people are likely to do the same. He'll run a large dog to the brink of exhaustion (newfoundland picky eater episode) and then while the dog is panting heavily trying to cool off in the kiddie pool, he brings in a large meal for the dog!!! Does he want the dog to get sick or die? And then he tells the owners to do the same. I'll bet that dog has died of bloat since the episode.

He never gets dogs vet checked before starting them on immediate strenious exercise programs.

His dogs are never on leash when walking through neighborhoods with leashed dogs in training. Who watches to see if his dogs pooped in somebody's yard a few blocks back? Who watches his dogs as they mingle around in the middle of the road? What a moron.

[Bella_Sadie_Hailey]

I watch it sometimes. I think he is a very good trainer, I've even got some tips off him and some of them seem to work for me!!!!

[Seravieve]

His dogs are never on leash when walking through neighborhoods with leashed dogs in training. Who watches to see if his dogs pooped in somebody's yard a few blocks back? Who watches his dogs as they mingle around in the middle of the road? What a moron.

His dogs are always leashed when I've watched. The only one I've ever seen him have off leash while on the show is Daddy. But he's had him for a long time. And when you have that kind of relationship with a dog... I don't see a problem with it. Daddy is the mellowest dog I've ever seen. He just waddles along... I've never seen any dog wonder in the middle of the road either. His dogs are always right next to him and the 'trainee' dog.

With a camera crew filming for the show.. I'm sure SOMEONE would notice if a dog pooped..

CM treats/trains the dog at hand.. not all dogs with similar problems. They have a disclaimer, says seek professional help, yada yada... So its a case by case show.. There's no blanket techniques that will work for every dog.

[dreamparkingspace]

I disagree, I'd bet Cesar has never killed a dog from bloat. I actually think he has saved several dogs' lives by educating the public about how to be a responsible dog owner .

[bckrazy]

This topic has been covered several times on the forum... most recently in Behavior: http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...=dog+whisperer

My opinion is expressed in that post. In short, I would watch it as entertainment, and nothing more. Those warnings before/after/during the Dog Whisperer are there for a reason - the techniques used in many of the cases are incredibly dangerous and foolish, and the show doesn't want to be liable for people thinking they can use them to "cure" their own dogs. To me, it's like watching Rock of Love with Bret Michaels for tips on how to date.

I like It's Me Or The Dog. Do you ever see dozens of warnings on Victoria's show? No. Enough said.

[Seravieve]

The difference between Its Me Or The Dog and CM is that Cesar's cases are more extreme. Victoria takes on cases like dogs peeing in the house... Cesar deals with usually aggressive dogs. Its different... And sure its all entertainment. That's why its still on tv. I watched probably a full season of IMOTD and gave up. I'd have my dvr record them and watch them several at a time on Saturdays... I don't find her skills as effective.

[dreamparkingspace]

I'm not trying to start anything, but the last poster made a good point...Cesar takes on difficult cases and even saves dogs lives. Victoria is helpful too, but she usually just teaches dogs not to pee in the house. Even I could do that.

[bckrazy]

I don't want to start anything either... obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is a little bit stronger, due to all of the bad experiences I've had with people using CM "techniques". I have witnessed first hand the horrible impact that some of his teachings have had on dogs and people. I know some one whose dog attacked them and was PTS because of using his exact techniques. Not the basic stuff, like exercise, calmness, and tsssing... what really scares me is the physical confrontation, rough handling, alpha rolling, that garbage.

As far as IMOTD, I have seen shows featuring dogs who had bitten people and who were seriously dog aggressive. Victoria does not push the dogs to the point of attacking her on her show, she desensitizes and conditions the dogs gradually. The difference is that the process isn't sensationalized and the results aren't instantaneous which does make it a lot less entertaining but a lot more practical. Changing the way that a dog thinks, reacts, and processes stimulus (IMHO) is not as easy is pinning them to the ground until they cease to do anything.

I have seen many, many episodes of the Dog Whisperer involving dogs who are nothing but rude, good-natured and untrained... he still alpha rolls them, hand-bites them, and intimidates them into a state of shut down. Just today, there was an adorable, delightful Pit Bull puppy who jumped all over people and excitedly mouthed them. He could have been EASILY trained that sitting and being polite was the only thing that he got him attention and praise, this was basic puppy raising. The puppy was rolled over on his side, out of fear, and Cesar got on him and held him down. The puppy actually lunged at him, in a serious way. I would much rather have a friendly, obnoxious dog than a sedate, fearful dog who sees human hands as a source of pain and reprimand.

[pomtzu]

All I can say is, some methods are for some people, some methods are for others. One thing is for sure, Cesar Millan never goes with anger, hate or resentment, only love, and he does not fail to leave peace and happiness in his wake.
I can tell you that the only thing I have felt in the wake of all you "Anti-Cesar" people is anger, frustration, anxiety and the temptation to get angry and tell you how much I disagree. But, being a natural behaviourist myself, whom agrees and supports all other methods (including positive only training!) I am happy just to smile and move on.
This message is really just to try and help some of you open your eyes, look at the good things, not only in other methods, but life too. I mean, on a serious note, you're sitting there writing how much you disagree with Cesar, but in the end, who's listening? How do you feel when you write them? Happy? And what is it solving? And, on a less serious note, does Cesar even care!
Try and redirect some of that anger and resentment into a nice smile!

Go with peace.



George

A very interesting post. Thank you.

And just for the record - I enjoy watching Dog Whisperer and always am amazed at the results he gets. I don't necessarily feel that people should try his methods at home. It's always best to leave most of what he does to a trained professional. IMHO of course.

[bckrazy]

I mean, on a serious note, you're sitting there writing how much you disagree with Cesar, but in the end, who's listening? How do you feel when you write them? Happy? And what is it solving? And, on a less serious note, does Cesar even care!
Try and redirect some of that anger and resentment into a nice smile!

Who is listening?

Since you're new to this forum, I guess you don't completely understand it. I listen to others. Hopefully, others listen to me. This is a very tight knit forum and even though I don't post as often as I used to, I know most of these people very well. I have learned so, so, so much from the people here over several years it's unbelievable. And, not every thread that I have learned valuable information from has been 100% sunshine and rainbows. As long as there are no personal attacks toward members, or nasty language, I feel that debating is a wonderful way of expressing one's own opinion and learning more about others.

How do you feel when you write about how all of us are wasting our time and how we should warmly accept what we do not morally agree with? Obviously, you have at least a smidgeon of anger and resentment toward those of us who don't support the "Dog Whisperer", or you wouldn't be telling us to shut up and smile. When I express how I feel about a show that glorifies training techniques literally decades old and outdated, I feel hopeful that maybe some one will decide to look into more humane ways of training their dogs. I do so because I have a passion for dogs, and particularly for training dogs, and my mentors (some of the best behaviorists in the area http://www.4pawsu.com) have really opened my eyes about "dog psychology" in general. What they taught me helped me, and it "solved" a lot of the issues that I had with my dog because I was using negative punishment to supress behaviors rather than shape new ones. I hope that I open some other people's eyes, but if I don't, I have no ill will towards them because they are free to make their own personal choices. Does Cesar care? Probably not... he is ludicrously rich and I'm sure he hasn't a care in the world. He has yet to respond to the many, many world-reknown behaviorists who have called him out, so I'm sure he won't respond to little old me. I don't care, at all. I care more about the millions of people he influences every day on his glamorized TV show that makes him look like a hero.

If we all smile and move on, what do we learn?

Nice to see someone level-headed and friendly on here, it seems like we need more on this forum!

Ugh. On your 8th post you say this? I am so done.

[Jags mom]

I too love cesar milan and his show his tip have helped a lot of my clients( i groom dogs) with thier problems, not big ones, but things like not wanting to walk on new laminate flooring. i have practised claiming my dogs food as my rescue used to be food aggresive, now i can stick my face in her food and she will totally back off. a dog is a dog and always will be but i still treat them like my baby. i think you have to be dominant over them in order to treat them like a baby. affraid of and respectful are 2 different things. a strang person coming into control some of your actions i would shy away from to and go back to the person that lets them get away with every thing, they may look affraid but they are not. dogs try to manipulate ppl just they way kids do you have to be firm. again i love him and the fact that he gives a great name to pits and rotties, they need a good spokes person like that

[Christmas_Hamster]

I haven't checked into the show much lately but from what I have seen he is a complete moron, his training techniques and theories are outdated and the dogs only respond to him out of fear. This isn't how training should work. My dog used to love learning new things even if we were breaking him out of a bad habit he just loved to try and learn.

The think I hate most is that he trades dogs like they are pokemon cards. If he can't get the dog the way he wants within the allotted amount of time then he just gives the people one of his dogs and takes in their current one. This is a bad both on Cesar and the owners but why let it happen?

[dreamparkingspace]

I think the reason he suggests exchanging dogs with some people on the show lately is because he gives the people a dog whose energy level matches theirs better. Then the dog who had behavioral issues which the owners couldn't correct goes on to live in Cesar's doggie sanctuary rather than eventually bite someone then be put to sleep by animal control. Not sure if that's the whole procedure in trading pokemon cards, but if I had a dog I knew I just couldn't handle I'd be willing to let it live out the rest of it's life at the Dog Psychology Center playing fetch and running around with other dogs every day in a happy and balanced state.

[atchbedyto]

I rescued a highly aggressive/reactive/dominant Rottweiler. She was left tied in a back yard while her owner was in jail. She was basically a last chance dog with a bite history. She attacked me twice when I first rescued her, highly dog aggressive, wanted to eat my Cat, was bad with most people, The Vets could barely handle her etc. At first I used those old out dated dominance training methods such as alpha rolls, pinning, choker, corrections etc. Anyway, the techniques "seemed" to be working and I was pretty proud of myself. But, what really happened was my Rottweiler had shut down, was suppressed and no longer trusted me. She didn't "learn" how to be a better dog she learned to fear me which in a novices eye would look like respect. Anyway what then started happening was she learned not to give any warnings. So I'd see another dog and she wouldn't react and I would think all was well. The corrective type training made her into a sneaky dog that had not learned not to give warnings. She did not learn to not do the bad behavior.

So, I started going to a local behaviorist who uses positive only training with excellent results. She has saved many dogs from being PTS, but you'll never see her on TV. She is not a braggart as this is her job. To make a long story short I used positive training to mold my Rottweiler into the perfect dog. Just because you use positive training does not mean you have a pocket full of treats. Dogs can be rewarded in many other different ways, I used praise, toys, play, redirecting drives, laughter etc. If you have a breed with enhanced drives the dog is rewarded by allowing them to express those drives in a good manner instead of destructive. For example if I have a highly aggressive dog that I am trying to desensitize to people and she has a high chase drive then I will bounce a ball as I walk past the person to start the desensitizing process. Then I will have the other person bounce the ball and play fetch etc. The dog then associates this new person with good things. With my Rottweiler I took her natural drives and rewarded her for expressing them in a positive manner. I was able to desensitize her to horses and cats by simple tactics that did not involve food. For the horses I started bringing home the horse blankets etc to get her used to the smell and good things happened when that smell was around. Another thing as well, even the most highly dog aggressive dog will shut down when they are put into a situation with multiple dogs. A person that keeps 50 or so dogs together does not impress me at all, it's called flooding, also what a stressful way for those poor dogs to live. Flooding a dog is easy to do, but it's not getting the dog over the issue and teaching them a new behavior. My highly dog aggressive Rottweiler is fine in large groups of dogs, it's when there is only one new dog that she became reactive and it didn't matter what the other dog is like in personality she just reacts. Its more predatory drive for her when she see's another dog. So I worked on that with counter conditioning and allowing her to fulfill those drives in positive ways. I am very proud of the turn around of behavior with my Rottweiler. She now has learned new behaviors to replace the old bad behaviors. They were a natural part of her so I just directed them in another harmless forms. I do not believe in flooding, I do not believe in making a dog face it's fears in a force based manner etc, I do not believe in alpha rolls, pinning, chokers etc.

Anyway I am a person who tried different tactics of training I am very impressed with positive only approach. I can't begin to say how thrilled I am in the difference in my Rottweiler. She was a challenge, one which I am very proud of as she is a great representative of positive training. She also taught me so much.

I have 6 dogs, 4 which had issues when I rescued them from food/resource aggression, touch phobia's, fear issues and phobias etc. They have all thrived with routine, positive training to teach them what is expected of them and redirecting bad to desireable. They all eat side by side and are fed a high value food ( a trick many people use for highly food aggressive dogs is to feed low value food). They live in perfect harmony and have perfect lives they all sleep where they want the Rottie, Dobe and Alaskan Husky and cat sleep with me and the Newfs on the couch or where ever When I go for hikes I walk on my property (16 acres) and on trails. My dogs are loose and I never worry about them. I am very proud how well my group of dogs get along especially since they all started living together as adults.

I don't agree with the way Cesar represents dog training or the things he does. He is a good entertainer no doubt but a person to represent dog training...well that is just scary. He is what I see as a phony, but people seem to be enthralled by him because he does have the charm and lays it on thick . It almost seems when people love him they will go to extremes to push him on others which I don't like. We have many clients who are part of the Cesar cult and their dogs are the worst behaved monsters One lady who is a huge fan and follows everything he teaches even managed to ruin a nice mannered Golden Retriever. One lady that came in saw one of our Newf's paw at my Sister's leg for attention. This Cesar cult member started going on how this was a sign of dominance because Cesar said so etc My goodness it's a Newf thing!

[bckrazy]

People getting attacked using Cesar's methods. Your friend euthanized their dog just because they got attacked? I suggest you start making new friends asap. Cesar's methods will never result in death or severe injury, if used properly, and peace and happiness is always the end result. If you have watched the show, then you'll also know that most of Cesar's clients tried literally dozens of positive trainers, all of which have given up-as your friend did with their dog. I do not believe in giving up, no matter how hard.

Not a friend, an acquaintence. Her dog was food posessive and she used the EXACT, to a tee, techniques that Cesar used in food guarding "rehabilitation" including guidance in his book. She challenged her dog just as Cesar challenged that dog, and he attacked her. I could have told her that's what would happen... but no - desensitizing and conditioning using un-obtrusive, un-threatening techniques takes too long. The dog attacked her in a serious way, not just a nip. Just as Cesar himself has been seriously attacked while working with dogs. For the record, my behaviorists have NEVER been bitten by a dog while working with them, as they have the knowledge and care not to push a dog that far.

What do you think to the fact that the dogs are only coming to the treat? When I look at that technique, I see an animal, that has a high food drive, that is opportunistic. I don't see a cute funny human that I don't want to hurt it's feelings so I don't do what is natural to them, I see animal.

What do you think of the fact that negative-reinforcement trained dogs practice behaviors out of fear? When CM "tssss"s at a dog, alpha rolls a dog, hand-bites a dog, chokes a dog, what have you, he is telling the dog "stop functioning or I'm going to threaten your life". The dog doesn't understand that Cesar does not intend to kill them... to them, it's either shutdown/fight or die. When they are not given the option to fight, they do shutdown. That is what I disagree with most. A shutdown dog might seem "obedient" and "calm/submissive" to the average person, but a shutdown dog will not give me what I want from my dogs. I want much, much, much more from my dogs.

I don't treat my dogs like cute funny people. I treat them like cute funny dogs! They are! They love me. They love to work for me. They do not do so out of fear, or out of avoidance, they do so out of an ingrained desire to please me. If I spent all of my time physically correcting my dogs and intimidating them, I would have very unhappy dogs (yes I know this from experience), and I wouldn't be happy. I would rather not have dogs.

I emphasized that the treats are phased out. You can use treats, a favorite toy, petting, or just your voice... whatever the dog is really into. You're right, dogs do have food drive and they are opportunistic. That's why I said I "use what I have". Do I have the sense of smell, touch, posture, or vocalizations that dogs have? No. Dogs DO work for motivators in the wild, and those motivations include food, affection, mating rights, etc. Food being absolutely paramount and a necessity to survive. Why not use something that highly motivates your dog to teach them what you want from them?

Dogs are born into our foreign world of cities, buildings, throngs of other people and strange dogs, having to walk on a leash, having a human control when they eat/eliminate/get out. To expect them to just deal with that, without showing them that what we want them to do is highly rewarding and positive, is unfair IMHO.

I have so many questions for positive trainers generally. What happens when the treats run out? And/or when you have no clicker or anything but your mind. Do you know that in natural cases like these these the only option is to use natural methods, that's why they're called natural methods, dogs don't use clickers or treats or persuasions on each other, so it makes sense not to either.

As I said before... treats are phased out. Food is used to create positive associations and to mark a behavior as wanted. Many years of research has found it to be the best tool in motivating dogs, no, ANY animal. I don't bring treats or a clicker on the majority of my walks and outings... I don't need them for trained behaviors! The fact is, consistency and careful weaning from the motivator has taught my dogs what I want from them (in that case, staying near me) and that what I want is positive and rewarding. Why do you think they use clickers and treats to train Orca and Bears? Do you think natural methods would work with those animals?

Another one that boggles my mind. I have heard so many cases of people who try and use positive methods on ultra-dominant or ultra-aggressive dogs, and as nobody has been able to snap the dog out of it, the dog has managed to attack or maim another dog or person. People get hurt using positive methods too, when they're not willing to use the dog's techniques back at him.

Honestly, if a dog attacks or kills a person using positive reinforcement, they are not doing it right. The point of desensitizing a dog (ie to human contact) is to NEVER break threshold. That is, the point at which the dog's brain is in a state of fight or flight... at that point, they are no longer capable of learning new behaviors. A dog growling/snarling/attacking/shutting down is well past threshold. The point is, never get past level 1, and slowly progress.

The point isn't who seems weaker, or who seems more dominant. People are the most dominance-obsessed beings of all. That's obvious. I don't really understand what you mean by "stop a dog from wanting to kill people". How in tarnations is a dog going to want to stop killing people by being physically hurt by a person? If a dog has the desire to kill another dog, do you think the other dog alpha rolling him is going to extinguish that desire? Or intensify it? Or do you think the other dog being a positive, unobtrusive, ambient source of rewards and good things would intensify it?

On another random note, why is it that 50% of what most positive trainers say is putting down natural methods? It seems they NEVER mention the good stuff, like what you just said about clickers for example, which as a matter of fact I will take into consideration and think about-thank you. Natural behaviorists, or at least the ones that I know (including me, upto now) never put down other methods, but actually use them in some areas if it is possible. I am also a believer in positive training, but in most extreme cases, it simply is not an option.

I cannot deny that I'm sure some "natural" methods do work for some dogs. I truly believe that behavioral issues in the vast majority of dogs can be solved with positive methods... but I know there are dogs who just aren't wired right. Every dog is an individual. Gonzo will do absolutely anything with just praise as his motivation, while Fozzie is very stubborn and learns new behaviors best with high value rewards. I'm sure there are dogs who respond to neither and need something more than what positive reinforcement training can do, but I feel that those dogs are an incredible minority. Regarding the 50% thing, I think that positive trainers are troubled by the new wave of negative reinforcement trainers (not just natural, punishment in general) heavily due to Cesar Millan. Dog training has made leaps and bounds over the past few decades, as has research into dog behavior, and many positive trainers feel that the Dog Whisperer has set dog training back a few decades.

The only one you have to debate with against natural methods are dogs themselves, neither I, nor anyone else invented natural methods.

It is unfortunate that dogs can't talk! I would love to hear their opinion.

If I had rescued two adopted Pit Bulls? Hmm... well, I find that to be an incredible stereotype/generalization... but alright. Are you assuming that these Pit Bulls are just dog aggressive, or human aggressive as well? My dogs are both rescues. Gonzo was a pathetically fearful and abused dog when I adopted him. He had fear-based HA and DA issues when I adopted him, in addition to being afraid of all kinds of regular house-hold and city sounds, even sneezes sent him into a frenzy. Truly, fear aggression is one of the most difficult behavioral issues in the world to cure. I would think a Pit Bull who was confident, but reactive, would be easier to help if anything.

To be honest, my parents only knew "old-school" (in addition to "natural") training methods when I was 13 and adopted him. We went to classes that used choke chains, that told you to correct every growl or negative reaction, to "nip it in the bud", "give an inch and they'll take a mile", etc. He was much worse by the time he was 1 1/2 years old. Much more fearful, and much more prone to growl/snap at strangers and dogs. There was an incident where he nearly bit some one. It was then that I scheduled a session with the behaviorists at 4 Paws. I wanted to start fresh, so I stopped punishing him, I stopped flooding him, I stopped pushing him alltogether. I desensitized him to people and other dogs, and it took YEARS of work, but he learned to see them in a positive light rather than a scary one that he needed to defend himself against. He earned his CGC and his TDI - he went from being declared a "dangerous dog" to that in 2 years. I would hardly call him a naturally good natured dog, but he is a good natured dog now, not due to his genetics or teaching him that I'm the boss and he'd better follow me or else but by teaching him that the world is a happy place.