The children be darned! Tobacco taxes.

[Cataholic]

So, it IS a little insulting to compare Welfare to Veterans Benefits.

How so? I am not talking about people that take advantage of either program. I am talking about the hard working individual, maybe they have worked 30 years at a low paying job, paying into the benenfit program, and all of a sudden, find them selves out of a job, unable to make ends meet. And, they apply for welfare. They are "entitled" to it, have paid for it, and "deserve" it. Does that make them less of a person, simply because they didn't serve their country?

Benefits are benefits are benefits. No one is better or worse, as a person, because of what they do for a living. And, none of this should be taken as a slight against the enlisted men and women (or former enlisted...).

[Edwina's Secretary]

I am glad to see the thick skins!

Guess it doesn't go both ways.

And...unless Alaska is different from every other state in the union - employers pay worker comp insurance and unemployment insurance. The only payroll taxes contributed to by employees are social security, medicare, and of course - income tax.

Ah Johanna! That is why you are a lawyer...you put things so much more eloquently than I!

[pomtzu]

I was not comparing apples to oranges - which is what comparing Welfare to Veterans Benefits is! I simply said that Veterans Benefits could in no way be viewed as a handout and I agreed with blue on that statement (nor is Welfare when it dispersed properly and accordingly!).
I am of the Viet Nam Era, and have seen too many lives changed forever, physically and/or mentally! The majority who served their country (and paid a great price) during this time did not do so willingly. But they put their lives on the line every day in conditions you couldn't even imagine in your worst nightmare (and too many times lost), to protect what this country is all about, just as our current military continues to do. To view any benefits that they are entitled to as a handout is obscene! IMO of course! Just remember - they died and suffered for YOU!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Well...in for a penny...in for a pound.

Where has anyone called veteran's benefits a handout? I don't see it. Unless...you consider receiving a public education a "handout" (and I realize some do.) That is the comparison.

Police and firefighters -- they also volunteer for a potentially dangerous public service job...and put their lives on the line every day in situations you and I cannot imagine.

The jobs with the highest on-the-job mortality in this country are timber cutters and fishers. Taxi driving is also a very dangerous profession.

But the point being made... was...if you are going to say that you will not take money from the government because that makes you "a slave" that should be any money...not just money you feel justified in taking.

[Karen]

Or unemployment. Or food stamps. Or workers' comp. Or veterans benefits.

We can certainly tell he did not take advantage of public education.

He does not even know the correct names of the states!

Well...in for a penny...in for a pound.

Where has anyone called veteran's benefits a handout? I don't see it.

Your post that I quoted just above could be seen as doing just that.

It is easy, in quickly reading posts, to jump to contusions.

Are there people who genuinely deserve Welfare, and benefit from the program? Absolutely.

Are there people who abuse the system and take advantage of Welfare? Absolutely.

As in so many situations, one cannot paint everyone with the same broad brush.

I think we can all agree the system ain't perfekt. But it is up to us, as citizens, to work to change it, not to just gripe about it and otherwise refuse to participate in the political process that can enable change.

Hate your local government? Then run for office and change it, or move somewhere else!

I pay taxes. Therefore I vote.

And in all things, folks, remember to be respectful of each other.

Sara - I knew someone who grew up, since the age of four, in Massachusetts. Attended publics schools in a town known for its good school system. Just didn't much care about any of it. As a 16-year-old, she could not accurately identify the six New England states (Psst, hint - we live in one. Hint 2 - New York isn't one of them.) Yet now that she has matured, she is a paralegal and attending law school - like many things, education only works if you try, which after high school, she decided to do.

[pomtzu]

Your post that I quoted just above could be seen as doing just that.

Precisely! Thank you!

And my post about agreeing with blue and his retort in post #68, is my view and opinion regarding Veterans Benefits. Nothing more - nothing less.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sara - I knew someone who grew up, since the age of four, in Massachusetts. Attended publics schools in a town known for its good school system. Just didn't much care about any of it. As a 16-year-old, she could not accurately identify the six New England states (Psst, hint - we live in one. Hint 2 - New York isn't one of them.) Yet now that she has matured, she is a paralegal and attending law school - like many things, education only works if you try, which after high school, she decided to do.

All excellent points you make Karen. However, I bet even your New Englander friend knew that California is not spelled Mexifornia. Or anything CLOSE to that.

So for the record...I do not consider unemployment to be a handout...I do not consider workers' comp to be a handout...I do not consider veteran benefits to be a handout. All systems set up to protect the citizens of this country.

So do you think worker comp and unemployment are handouts?

[Karen]

All excellent points you make Karen. However, I bet even your New Englander friend knew that California is not spelled Mexifornia. Or anything CLOSE to that.

So for the record...I do not consider unemployment to be a handout...I do not consider workers' comp to be a handout...I do not consider veteran benefits to be a handout. All systems set up to protect the citizens of this country.

So do you think worker comp and unemployment are handouts?

No, I don't.

I doubt the friend I mention would have known that California is a state. She probably thought at the time at Hollywood or Los Angeles was a state, and California was something else.

Are you not familiar with the book "Mexifornia?" It was quite a sensation a couple years ago ... with a big silhouette of California on the cover.

[lizbud]

It is easy, in quickly reading posts, to jump to contusions.

Whew, let's hope we never all get trapped in a small room while
discussing opinions.

Sorry Karen, just kidding.

[Puckstop31]

How so? I am not talking about people that take advantage of either program. I am talking about the hard working individual, maybe they have worked 30 years at a low paying job, paying into the benenfit program, and all of a sudden, find them selves out of a job, unable to make ends meet. And, they apply for welfare. They are "entitled" to it, have paid for it, and "deserve" it. Does that make them less of a person, simply because they didn't serve their country?

Benefits are benefits are benefits. No one is better or worse, as a person, because of what they do for a living. And, none of this should be taken as a slight against the enlisted men and women (or former enlisted...).

I hear ya. I do. The example you provide is what the programs should be for. Limited and for extreme cases... A last resort if you will.

My work takes me to some public housing communities. The things I see there would make anybodies blood just boil. Lots of cars with "bling". Most of the residents are there, all day... hanging out and smoking. Did ALL of these people earn the right to live on our dime?

[Puckstop31]

But the point being made... was...if you are going to say that you will not take money from the government because that makes you "a slave" that should be any money...not just money you feel justified in taking.

Good point. I do understand what you are saying. It got me to thinking... LOL (Yikes)


If in the process of recieving my VA benefits, the VA decided that they could tell me how to live or what I could do to my home, I would not take it. With some programs, most noteably the recent bailouts, taking that taxpayer money makes you subject to the whims of government. So accept public benefits at your own peril I reckon.

Further, while the Libertarian in me has issues with any kind of welfare, the human being (and Christian) in me understands the need for it. But it should be in the most extreme cases and temporary. Ben Franklin said, (paraphrasing) "poverty should be uncomfortable as to motivate people to get out of it." We are good hearted people, for the most part, in this country. It is in our nature to help out those in need. That is a wonderful thing. But we should never allow people to become DEPENDANT on public programs to survive. Sadly, way too many politicians use that very dependance to their advantage to keep the dependant voting for them.

Anybody ever wonder how after having spent literally TRILLIONS of dollars on the "war on poverty", nothing has changed or even gotten worse?

This is a good discussion, for the most part. I hope we can keep looking each other in the eye, rather than down on each other.

[Edwina's Secretary]

.

Are you not familiar with the book "Mexifornia?" It was quite a sensation a couple years ago ... with a big silhouette of California on the cover.

No, I don't. As you know, I am an accidental California resident.

But I consider the intent of the poster who used that mispelling of the state to have been to make a racist statement. And not his first. And apropo of nothing. Except an intent to insult.

So Karen, what the the sensation this book created? You've got me curious. Everything I found when I googled Mexifornia is quite distasteful.

[Karen]

No, I don't. As you know, I am an accidental California resident.

But I consider the intent of the poster who used that mispelling of the state to have been to make a racist statement. And not his first. And apropo of nothing. Except an intent to insult.

So Karen, what the the sensation this book created? You've got me curious. Everything I found when I googled Mexifornia is quite distasteful.

Hmm, I think I may either have the book around in a box somewhere, or have sent it forward to Richard. It was a fairly politically inflammatory book about Hispanic immigrants - legal and otherwise - taking over California. If I remember correctly it was a "Ahhh, panic! Close the borders and make everyone speak English all the time" kind of book ... but it has been a while since I had it in my hands.

Now the term is used to kind of make fun of that attitude ...

[Edwina's Secretary]

Now the term is used to kind of make fun of that attitude ...

Really? How odd I have lived in California for 4.5 years and never heard it used -- truthfully in any way until thread.

Karen, is that what you think the poster, who alternatively spelled California as Kafornia or some such, was doing? Making fun of the hysteria over immigrants from Mexico and not a derogatory statement about Mexican immigrants?

[sparks19]

Really? How odd I have lived in California for 4.5 years and never heard it used -- truthfully in any way until thread.

Karen, is that what you think the poster, who alternatively spelled California as Kafornia or some such, was doing? Making fun of the hysteria over immigrants from Mexico and not a derogatory statement about Mexican immigrants?

Well... he DID make mention of the book so that leads me to believe he was referring to it and the hysteria.

For the record I have never heard of the book until now so I googled it... ah where would we be without google lol