Diane Sawyer - Appalachian Special

[caseysmom]

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”
quote - Paulo Coelho

[Medusa]

Walking 8 miles to get a GED try walking 8 miles in a city blown to peices and burning, no food no water and the stench of the dead everywhere. That is WW11 was.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Each generation has done what it needed to do to survive. Neither circumstance is desirable. The woman who walks 8 miles each way to get her GED deserves credit, someone to pat her on the back and say "Atta girl!". She needs encouragement so that she won't give up and stay in those conditions. She's at least trying, she's making an effort and, hopefully, once she gets her GED, she'll get a decent job so that she can improve her living conditions. She's trying to help herself and thus help her kids, as you say they must do and I don't disagree. If her kids see her placing such a high value on education that she's willing to brave the elements and make that long trip on foot each day, chances are that they'll value an education, too, and will follow in her footsteps to better their own lives. She is not a horrible mother; she's a mother who has no outside help, no examples to emulate, a mother who is trying her best. She isn't abandoning her children; she's setting an example for them. Yes, she smokes. Yes, she probably has a TV. Who would begrudge her those simple pleasures, regardless of our stand on smoking and the resultant health issues? I hope and pray that she doesn't lose hope, that she makes it and proves the naysayers wrong.

[K9soul]

Marigold, you must be one of those people who feel depression and despair are a person's choice and they just need to snap out of it. There's really nothing that can be said to people who feel that way. Of course people who have conquered all adversity and risen above to make a new life should be admired and are an inspiration. But do we really know what makes the difference between someone who is able to do that and someone who isn't? Is it an increased mental fortitude, increased support from some place? Every life is different, every mind different. Everyone's threshold is different. You seem convinced it's a matter of pure selfish and lazy versus people who want to help themselves. The world is not so very black and white. You seemed to like the quote 'God helps those who help themselves." What about "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

[Daisy and Delilah]

I have tried to find the right words to answer your post, Marigold. I am preceded here by some of our most eloquent speakers on this board. I will try to put my thoughts down and hope it makes sense.

I think you base alot of your thoughts on what was portrayed in the Diane Sawyer special only. You have to realize, that show didn't accurately describe every person in Appalachia or in other poverty stricken areas. The ones I know are God fearing, hard working, clean, proud, and, honest people who love their children and their families. A love that is strong and controls their every move. I would hate to hear someone tell my former MIL, and, still my friend, that she 's a horrible mother. That is so harsh. How can you say these women are horrible mothers? How can you say they don't love their children? You don't know these people. You've proven that by what you said. That dear woman is one of the finest people I have ever met. She opened her arms to me and gave me food and shelter when I needed it. At 82 years old, her health is failing but she still represents one of the strongest human beings on this earth. I love and respect her with all my heart.

I felt the people depicted in the special were individuals that were completely unique. They actually allowed themselves to be interviewed and filmed for a television show!! This is not everybody there so we can't base all our thoughts on what we saw on tv.

In all respect for you and your family, their hardship was great. The overcame adversity and made a better life for themselves. However, as Mary said, you are comparing apples to oranges. Your family and the Appalachian people are not the same.

Some of those mountain people stay in the mountains. They don't leave the area. Many of them don't drive. They grow their food or raise their food in livestock. In other words, they are genuinely unaware of another type of life being available. Some of them are like hermits. They know nothing else. But, again, this doensn't describe all of the Appalachian people.

As far as the smoking goes, I saw many people smoking but you better believe they put food on the table. They aren't smoking and starving their children. Their families are number one. Always. What's wrong with having a television? I don't think there are many homes in the country that don't have some kind of a television. It is the only link to the outside that some of them have. If the tv is on, they watch it as a family. The drugs: as I said in another post, I was unaware of this problem when I was there. The doctors are prescribing the drugs for these people. All these people know is that the drugs make them feel better so they take them. It seems to have turned into abuse in some people. But, I'm sure not every person in Appalachia is abusing drugs either.

You are grouping all people as being sterotypical druggies, drunks, smokers, bad parents, etc. You just can't do that. You do sound bitter, I have to say. I'm sorry your family had such a struggle. Unfortunately, it just isn't fair to group the two situations together. I get upset reading the comments that were made about this tv show. I hope all of you(meaning you and those that commented on ABC's website) can realize that you can't judge these people on what you think you know.

[Marigold2]

I understand where all of you are coming from I do. I know I sound harsh and by NO means want anyone to think that I for one second believe that all people are like that. My respect to all who try to improve their life.
As for depression, I have a two children on medication for depression. One I gave birth to and one I didn't. I know how hard it is to live with a depressed person on a daily basis. You can take you meds and make bad choices, or take your meds and make good ones. Every person has demons, problems of one sort or another and we all need to step up to the plate and make the best of each day, it's not easy but it's the only sane thing to do. Feeling sorry for oneself helps no one. Helping others is a great way to beat depression especially helping our fur children.
By stating that they have a TV they see and hear the latest news, weather, spots, gossip, policts etc. CNN, Animal Planet, NASA, History, Jay Leno, Baseball etc..some would have to have cable especially in those way out places otherwise they would no get reception. It's not as if they have never seen a car, a phone, a TV. This is America and education is free, most I would hope have been to elementary school and beyond.
In fact they can get just about everything for free.
Medicaid pays for their eye care, health, dental. Food stamps pay for food. Hud of other such agencies pay for low cost or free housing. They would get free monies for college or trade school, lunches would be free for the small kids. The government pays for their children be given all shots, healthcare, therapy etc. Therapy is free for the adults. Most if not all medicians are free. Their utilities will also be picked up partly by the government.
They recieve no bill for having one or 10 kids if on Medicaid.
The library is free to all, they offer classes.
Hospitals have classes free.
Transportion is also provided in some areas by the hospital for appointments.. Lets see what other free-be have I forgotten?
But I am sure you get my point. There is help out there. But they have to want it, they have to ask if not for themselves but for their children so their lives can be better. No one should live in proverty. I can see one generation being poor, but not the second or the third. Grandchildren should not be as uneducated as the grandparents. Each and every generation should improve on the last. Every parent I have ever met wants their child to have it better then they did. To not learn and grow and improve is unexcepable in America and frankly its a slap in the face to all the people who fought for this country to make it better. Every soldier, every immigrant who came here and fought for jobs and a better living condition for their children. They are all heros and I am sure some suffered from depression but the job had to get done and they did it. I don't know any man from that time who laid in bed all day and felt sorry for himself or any woman. They were out there working and making America a great land.
Mary you spoke about your hard working dad. I hear the pride in your words. You and your brothers and sisters are better educated they he, and perhaps you son is more then you. It's how it should be. Your dad worked hard for you, and these people need to do the same.
It's time we stopped making excuses for people and expect them to pull their own weight. The less we demand of them the less they will do.
They are adults, act like it.

[Pam]

I am just speechless after reading Marigold's reply.

[caseysmom]

I am just speechless after reading Marigold's reply.

I think that shock is the intent so I don't put much weight on it.

[kokopup]

Marigold, You do not have a clue. You are totally out of touch with reality. All of the services you speak of are not even available in an urban setting, much less the most remote mountain areas where these people live. I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own.

[Cataholic]

Marigold,
You do not know of which you speak. I have said it before, and thought it many, many times concerning your posts. It bears repeating here. Your posts are so full of anger and bitterness, and so lacking of the characteristics like sympathy and empathy. I wonder what went so horribly wrong in your 'pick yourself up by your bootstraps' upbringing that it left you so inhumane towards others. It is nearly as if you are afraid to show compassion towards others lest it make you less of a person, or somehow take away from the reality of your parents and grandparents. It is just so sad to read your posts.

[Medusa]

I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own.

Not nice. Or fair either. Marigold shared an intimate part of her life by revealing this in the thread. We can make our points w/out insult; otherwise it's a slippery slope from discussion into argument and then nobody learns anything because we just go back and forth defending our positions.

[joycenalex]

this is my 3rd attempt at responding to this thread....it's a very complex and complicated issue that makes an easy response so hard to articulate.....
in the united states, except for those brought here by force into slavery, we, as a people are the descendants of immigrants. for many many reasons, our ancestors left their homelands in search of better...better education, better land, bettering for themselves, better for their mother and kids. i cannot totally disagree with marigold here. i know and understand leaving your home and kin is very hard, but the choice being made, generation after generation to remain in a situation that cannot support your family, in that specific geographic location is not good for that specific family nor society as a whole.
(QUOTE)....There is help out there. But they have to want it, they have to ask if not for themselves but for their children so their lives can be better. No one should live in poverty. I can see one generation being poor, but not the second or the third. Grandchildren should not be as uneducated as the grandparents. Each and every generation should improve on the last. (END QUOTE). there is help, it might not be easy to get to, it might not to be abundant help, but there are social services and ways to break the poverty cycle. education and birth control are first steps in ending the cycle of multi generational poverty both in appalachia and the inner cities.
i am not in any way or form discounting family ties, but some of those ties are nooses on the neck of the future generations. i know i'll be flamed for this, but i will be thinking on this topic and how to change the awfulness of it for my sisters and brothers locked into this hopelessness for a long time. kindly and thoughtfully joyce

[kokopup]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopup View Post

I really understand why your kids would be on antidepressants. You are in a world of your own.

I apologize for this insensitive statement. It was not called for.

[caseysmom]

kokopup, I have never found any of your posts offensive at all. I think like me her post angered you and you said it how you saw it. I have seen her blast whole ethnic groups with a wide sweep of her judgemental nonsense.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Devil's advocate for a moment....

I have not posted any opinion in this thread because I cannot sort out my thoughts (and I did watch the program...)

But reading it I am left to wonder...I see LOTS of judging going on in the thread about the Octomom. (I have been one judging...truth in advertising)

Is it okay to judge her and not the people in this program? What makes the difference?

[Daisy and Delilah]

Marigold, I honestly get where you're coming from too. I know what you're saying. I also have strong beliefs that govern how people need to take charge of their lives. I hope that the majority of the people of Appalachia have come out of the mountains and tried to get help for a better life for their families. I would love to see nothing more than those people doing just that. In this day and age, perhaps enough of them have been curious to the ways of modern technology.
However, I'm afraid there is still a large majority that hasn't done this. Why? The grandparents taught one way and the next generation followed, so on and so on. We can't force these people to live differently. It has to be their choice.

When I lived there, there was no tv cable available in the remote mountain areas. I can't even imagine what it would be like to run cable all the way up one of those mountains. It's practically impossible so no one does it. We got three major channels on the tv and that was it. The picture was almost unrecognizable. There might be other alternatives available today.

As I said before, my former FIL worked in the coal mines to support his family. He owed his soul to the company store when he died. He got a black lung settlement that helped pay bills to an extent. Black lung killed him. Those people got nothing free. The only government assistance they got was for their handicapped son that eventually died while I was there.
You're saying that everyone gets everything free and they don't. You can't group these people all together like you're doing.

I know I've said enough already but I feel the need to defend these fine people. This is just one family. All of the Appalachians are not like this but many of them that I know there now, are exactly like this.

Lastly, I just think we should have compassion for everyone that needs it. I've never said I agree with what goes on there. I would love to see change come about. It's going to take alot to achieve this but maybe more fortunate people can get the ball rolling. Maybe we can awaken some of the people and make them aware of what is available to them. I'll hope and pray that we see that in my lifetime.