Firearms. Yea or Nay?

[RICHARD]

Once that right is taken away, military coups are inevitable.

so I'll keep my guns, thank you very much.

That's why the Coupe De Ville never became popular.

kind of like the anti-abortionists that believe abortion in murder but yet blow up abortion clinics to prove their point?
**hugs**

YEAH! Like that!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Us, (The US of A) have never suffered from a military coup. Why? because the citizens are allowed to bear arms.

Once that right is taken away, military coups are inevitable.

What a low opinion you have of the US military! The only reason for no coup is an armed populace?

There are lots of countries without our level of firearms and also without military coups!

[blue]

There are lots of countries without our level of firearms and also without military coups!

If the populace is unarmed why use the military for a coup?

Is it just me but does the word coup just look wierd?

[blue]

I knew I was just being paranoid.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

Linky.

[blue]

Rather then further muddy my thread for amending the Constitution for term limits.

The original intent of one of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

None of the Founding Fathers wrote that the Government should be better armed then its Citizens. None of them wrote that the citizens should be limitted to muzzle loaded rifles or pistols while the government makes and keeps the technological advancements in arms for themselves.

[Grace]

I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. My husband is a Life member of the NRA; I have gone target shooting with him.

The talk in this thread has been about kids getting shot. What about when kids do the shooting? Have you all heard about the 8 year old in Arizona who killed his father and another man?

I just read that he shot each of them 4 times - the murder weapon was a single-action .22-caliber hunting rifle that requires reloading before each shot. His dad had taught him to shoot.

[Karen]

I have heard the news story, I wonder when we will know the whole truth of the situation if ever we do. It is all completely tragic.

At the age of eight, I knew where the all guns in the house were, but was not allowed to fire any of them, and was taught never, ever, ever to fool around with them or even pretend to pull a trigger or point one at someone in jest.

[blue]

Is this the story?

8-Year-Old Arizona Boy Kills Father
Police Investigating Possible Abuse As Motive In Double-Murder; Father's Friend Also Killed

Comments 99

ST. JOHNS, Ariz., Nov. 8, 2008



(AP) Police in this small eastern Arizona community are looking into the possibility that an 8-year-old boy who is charged with killing his father and another man with a rifle had been abused, the police chief said Saturday.

The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."

A judge determined Friday that there was probable cause to show the boy fatally shot his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, with a .22-caliber rifle.

Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older. The judge ordered a psychological evaluation.

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

Police had responded to calls of domestic violence at the Romero home in the past, but authorities were searching records Saturday to determine when those calls were placed, Melnick said.

"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.

Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns.

The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said.

Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.

"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counterbalance against that, the acts that he apparently committed."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.

Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother.

Defense attorney Mike Piccarreta, who is not involved in the latest case, said that each case has to be considered on its own merits, but that it would be hard for him to comprehend that an 8-year-old has the mental capacity to understand the act of murder and its implications.

"If they actually prosecute the guy, it's a legal minefield," he said. "And, two, society has to make a decision as to whether they want to start using the criminal justice system to deal with 8-year-olds. That doesn't mean you don't have a troubled kid."

Wednesday's homicides were the first in at least four years in the community, where most people know one another, Melnick said.

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said.

Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits.

"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

Source.

[Alasse]

I am Australian, and am very thankful for the tight gun laws in our country.

I've never owned a gun, nor ever want to have one, i certainly do not want my kids anywhere near them either.

They are not something i believe every tom, dick and harry needs to have.

[ramanth]

Way to go dad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UA8Uhn1I8o

[blue]

Way to go dad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UA8Uhn1I8o

Now can you tell us the 4 things he did wrong in handling that firearm?

[ramanth]

Probably not four. Not that it matters as only one seriously wrong thing got him shot.

I own guns and grew up in a house with guns btw.

[RICHARD]

They are not something i believe every tom, dick and harry needs to have.

If you can get Dirty Harry's gun away from him......

[Edwina's Secretary]

Boys who find guns may ignore safety training
Even those coached otherwise will play with weapons

Tuesday, June 5, 2001

By M.A.J. MCKENNA
COX NEWS SERVICE

ATLANTA -- Boys who find a hidden gun will handle it, point it at each other and attempt to pull the trigger, even if they've been given coaching in gun safety and their parents think they can be trusted, according to a study performed in Atlanta.

The study, which is published in the June issue of the journal Pediatrics, was done by researchers at Emory University School of Medicine and Children's Healthcare of Atlanta-Egleston Hospital, and used 64 boys between 8 and 12 years of age.

The boys' parents, who are racially and demographically mixed, had participated in an earlier, larger survey by the same researchers. In that survey, three-fourths of gun-owning parents said that their children could tell the difference between a real gun and a toy, three-fourths said their child would leave a gun alone or go tell an adult they had found one and one-fourth said their child could be trusted with a loaded gun.

To test those assertions, the researchers set up an experiment.

Parents were asked to bring their child, plus a sibling or a playmate, to an exam room that included a one-way mirror. The room had toys scattered around it; there were also, concealed in several drawers, two water pistols and a real .380-caliber semiautomatic handgun. The gun contained no ammunition, but it had been modified with a radio transmitter that made lights flash whenever the trigger was pulled with enough force to fire an unmodified gun.

The kids and their companions, who made up 29 small groups, were left in the room and told the adults would return in 15 minutes, but would be outside the room if the children needed them. They were told they could play with the toys on display; they were not told about the water pistols or guns.

Within 15 minutes, 48 of the 64 boys had found the real gun. Almost half, 30 of the boys, handled it, including pointing it at each other and looking down the barrel. And 16 of the boys, one-fourth of those in the study, tried to pull the trigger.

None of the children knew that the gun was not loaded, and only a few of them left the room to fetch an adult. More than 90 percent of the kids had received some sort of gun-safety instruction from parents or at school before the experiment, and more than half of those who handled the firearm were thought by their parents to have no real interest in guns.

"All of us in this project support the idea of teaching children safety around guns, but this demonstrates that parents should not trust those lessons for a heartbeat," said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, chief of emergency medicine at Emory and a co-author of the study. "Boys are boys. They are naturally curious and adventurous. And given the opportunity, a substantial percentage will handle a real gun if they find one."

The study results underline the need to securely store guns kept at home and suggests making child-proofing guns a priority, Kellermann said. "Since we can't make kids gun proof, why can't we make guns kid proof?" he added.

National Rifle Association spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said the study used a "pretty puny" sample. "You can certainly assume that the findings are artificial," he said.

But psychologist Kevin Dwyer, a child-violence expert who was not involved in the research, called the results "extremely important." They suggest, he said, that just telling kids that they should not handle a gun is often not good enough.

"It means that we must have external control rather than education control, such as gun locks and reduced availability of firearms in situations where children can access them," Dwyer said.

Of course, your child will be different. You hope.

[Puckstop31]

Of course, your child will be different. You hope.

I KNOW.

You, ES, will NEVER understand this issue the way I do. Your culture and my culture are as different as night and day. The values you hold dear are most likely polar opposite mine.

I have no problem with that. Just you be careful when you try to impose YOUR will on me. You are free to be a urbanite, who relies on "experts" to tell you how to live. Keep your "wisdom" out of my house.

I prefer to be FREE. "Wisdom" imposed upon us by "experts", who gained their knowledge soley in a classroom... Slaves are made in such ways.