And the bail out goes right in to the toilet

[Edwina's Secretary]

I still cannot believe that the American people believe that this is the result of JUST 8 years... th is has been a long time coming. A lot longer than 8 measley years... even with a war. The US has been giving money away like it grows on trees for too long.

Gosh! I didn't realize what an expert you are on US economics.

How long has it been? Please explain to us...American people...how it came about! Even with that pesky war!

[blue]

Gosh! I didn't realize what an expert you are on US economics.

How long has it been? Please explain to us...American people...how it came about! Even with that pesky war!

I dont see any reason to dissagree with her. Let me try and find the amount of money given out under the Carter administration alone.

[Karen]

There are no easy answers here to any of this. Any single figure is not going to shed light on the complicated, tangled mess that is our current financial situation. Government - all three branches thereof - have certainly all played a role in this, and there is plenty of blame to go around.

And I doubt even people with PhDs in Economics think they know all the answers here. Or that there is any single "answer."

[Lady's Human]

But easy answers make good headlines and get better ratings!

Come on, there has to be a 30 second answer to all this. You can't seriously expect people to pay attention to something longer than a sound bite!

[blue]

And I doubt even people with PhDs in Economics think they know all the answers here. Or that there is any single "answer."

I reccomend Walter E Williams for any ecconomic annalysis.

[sparks19]

Gosh! I didn't realize what an expert you are on US economics.

How long has it been? Please explain to us...American people...how it came about! Even with that pesky war!

LOL MEOW... did someone p!ss in your cornflakes this morning? Cheer up

Anyway... I don't have an exact date ... no one does. but this is a far bigger mess than just the last 8 years has created. Did the war help? certainly not but it definitely isn't the sole cause of this. this has been a long time coming but no one thought it would ever happen to them (some still don't)

[Lady's Human]

(Remember when his feelings were hurt because he had to use the rear entrance on the president's jet so he caused the furlough of non-essential government workers?)

It was a tad more involved than one politician's personal pique, ES. The former Speaker of the House wasn't the only one involved with that, nor does he hold sole responsibility.

[Edwina's Secretary]

LOL MEOW... did someone p!ss in your cornflakes this morning? Cheer up

Anyway... I don't have an exact date ... no one does. but this is a far bigger mess than just the last 8 years has created. Did the war help? certainly not but it definitely isn't the sole cause of this. this has been a long time coming but no one thought it would ever happen to them (some still don't)

Oh my dear you misunderstood. I just hoped you would help us Americans understand what happened since you were so emphatic in your statement.

And politicans, although not my favorite creatures, pay taxes just like the rest of us Americans.

To suggest the problems is all the fault of politicians or the government is simplistic. They may be responsible for enabling but the "getting rich" falls on people on Wall Street!

LH...where's your pique at the suggestion that Carter gave away money? No one person in government holds sole responsibility but you only seem to be bothered but assignments of responsibility when it comes from me. Hmmm...perhaps I should accuse you of racism!

[Lady's Human]

I missed that comment, Sara, either that or I completely ignored it for some reason.

Pres. Carter didn't have the power to give away money........as stated earlier, that power is in the hands of Congress, not the executive branch.

[Lady's Human]

Durnit, I forgot the mandatory

[smokey the elder]

There is a high fear factor in the credit markets now, the way I see it (strictly lay observation.) No one wants to lend money at all, because all proper risk assessment has gone right out the window! The LIBOR low-risk short-term loans that are the "lube" of the economy aren't being made, so the economy is "stuck". Money exists; it's just not moving. Closest model: Japan in the 1990s. (Thanks, Robert Krulwich for making this simple enough for a scientist to understand!)

Is the "fear factor" justified, or part of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Just an example, in June we KNEW that oil was going to $150 a barrel....and it did, almost. But, then it came down, because it was apparently unsustainable.

Now the government, led by W, "KNOWS" that we'll enter the next Great Depression if they don't "bail" us out (I think that's a lousy term, btw).

Just FWIW, W "KNEW" there were WMDs in Iraq...interpret that as you will.

[Puckstop31]

No one wants to lend money at all, because all proper risk assessment has gone right out the window!

Yes, because they were MANDATED to give 'bad' loans, by Congress.

Money exists; it's just not moving.

Yes. The fat cats think that they can get a better return on their investment if they wait until the bad loans are 'bailed" out.

Now the government, led by W, "KNOWS" that we'll enter the next Great Depression if they don't "bail" us out (I think that's a lousy term, btw).

Just FWIW, W "KNEW" there were WMDs in Iraq...interpret that as you will.

All the more reason the 'bail out' should not be done. We are ALL going to take it on a chin a bit however.

[blue]

I missed that comment, Sara, either that or I completely ignored it for some reason.

Pres. Carter didn't have the power to give away money........as stated earlier, that power is in the hands of Congress, not the executive branch.

The executive branch can veto those expenditures.

[Lady's Human]

The executive can veto expenditures, but only by vetoing the entire bill. Line item veto doesn't exist, and the House and Senate would never agree to giving the executive that power.

For a perfect example of this, look at last year's highway bill. It was packed with non-relevant spending, but there were so many pet projects packed into the bill as a whole, there was no way a presidential veto would have stood.

[Grace]

In the Senate - 74 yes, 25 no, 1 absent (Kennedy)

Those voting no -

Allard (R)
Barasso (R)
Brownback (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)