Update on Puddy; she's gone*9/29* see post #421

[pomtzu]

That's great news to read this morning. It's heartwarming to see you post in a positive way, and I can almost picture you looking somewhat relieved and optomistic. Hopefully Puddy will continue to improve - poor girl has been thru sooo much! As has Mom!!
I don't mean to sound disrespectful with what I'm about to say - but why hasn't your vet been able to see the whole picture of what's going on with Puddy?? You'd think with the tongue/mouth issue would have been a clue in regard to the B12 - and it appears to be working for her. Maybe he was too focused on one problem and completely missed another?
Whatever - I'm just glad someone found this info for you and that it appears to be helping. Still keeping fingers, toes, and poochie paws crossed in hopes that Puddy continues to improve!!

[Medusa]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful with what I'm about to say - but why hasn't your vet been able to see the whole picture of what's going on with Puddy?? You'd think with the tongue/mouth issue would have been a clue in regard to the B12 - and it appears to be working for her. Maybe he was too focused on one problem and completely missed another?

You're not being disrespectful. Believe me, this is something I intend to discuss w/him tomorrow. He's been on vacation all week. I've always been his biggest champion; he has always appeared to have such good instincts. To be fair, I don't know if it's the B vitamins or the Selegiline or the combination of both that has worked and I'm not willing to risk Puddy backsliding to find out by process of elimination. I'm inclined to think that it's the B vitamins, though. (It isn't just B12; it's all the B vitamins that I'm giving her because my other vet, the local one, said that she feels Puddy could need all of them.) Maybe my vet is burning out, too. When I first took Puddy to him a couple of years ago, she was screaming in pain. He said that he had never heard a cat scream like that. My regular vet had retired and the new owners of the clinic, there were 4 of them, looked at her x-rays and watched her for 3 days in their hospital and still couldn't come up w/a diagnosis. I finally said "Either you figure this out or I'm taking her out of here now", which is what I did. Dr. Lee had saved Yodie's life so I took Puddy to him and, as soon as he pulled her x-ray out of the envelope, he said "She has an inflamed colon, you know that, right?" I said "No, I don't know that. How is it that you can see that so readily and 4 other vets couldn't?" He said "I can't explain that but she needs surgery now". When he opened her up, he said she had peritonitis. Why those vets couldn't see that, I have no idea. So, I'm willing to cut Dr. Lee some slack but not much because if her lack of B12 could've been solved months ago, then she's been put through this misery needlessly.

I'll post again later. I want to see how she does w/breakfast. She didn't touch any of her cat chow during the night but I baked a chicken breast for dinner and gave her some and she ate quite a bit of it, so maybe she just had enough to eat and didn't need the cat chow.

[Medusa]

When I cleaned the boxes this morning, there was a pee clump and a poop. (I don't believe the things that get me excited now.) And this time I'm sure it was hers because there's no way Creamsicle could've gotten into her room.

She didn't eat the chilled Fancy Feast but I'm thinking that she just wasn't hungry because she had chicken for dinner last night and that filled her up. I'll try it again later. She kept the Selegiline down w/no problem this morning. Yesterday she threw it up just seconds after I gave it to her and I didn't have the heart to give her more later in the day, so we skipped a day. It just must taste awful even w/the chicken flavoring added. The way the pharmacist explained it to me is "The cherry Nyquil tastes better than regular Nyquil but it's still Nyquil". Makes sense. So I imagine that the Selegiline must taste pretty awful w/out flavoring.

Well, a friend is picking me up shortly; we're going to browse a flea market today. Sure hope Puddy will let me use the shower.

[Catty1]

Sure hope Puddy will let me use the shower.

Well...start the shower with her in there! (JK)

Glad things continue to improve. Puddy will be feeling happier too!

Dr. Lee - maybe he IS burning out, simply because he has superior skills, and so many will seek him out over other vets (even in his practice). Bound to happen. Not blaming you at all - I am sure MANY have done that for very good reasons; but it may be costing him.

I hope he takes a week OFF...and not to go to a conference. You might jokingly ask him if he has been to HIS vet for a checkup lately. I am sure he will be happy to hear of Puddy's improvement.

It's good that you have another vet to check with - no one person can know or think of everything.

Have a good time at the market.

[Medusa]

Well...start the shower with her in there! (JK)

Glad things continue to improve. Puddy will be feeling happier too!

Dr. Lee - maybe he IS burning out, simply because he has superior skills, and so many will seek him out over other vets (even in his practice). Bound to happen. Not blaming you at all - I am sure MANY have done that for very good reasons; but it may be costing him.

I hope he takes a week OFF...and not to go to a conference. You might jokingly ask him if he has been to HIS vet for a checkup lately. I am sure he will be happy to hear of Puddy's improvement.

It's good that you have another vet to check with - no one person can know or think of everything.


Have a good time at the market.

Yes, my son said "And why isn't your vet finding out all this stuff for you?" He said that I've spent entirely too much money to not have all the info I need from my vet. On the one hand, I can see his point. On the other hand, Dr. Lee is human like everyone else. He saw things in Puddy that other vets missed. Lara found info that he didn't find because he says "Well, the internet is good and it's bad". I can't really fault him, I guess, but I do intend to have a talk w/him tomorrow morning.

As for the shower, Puddy insisted on sitting on the edge of the tub while I showered. I was afraid she'd fall in because I like HOT showers and, after a minute or so, she jumped down and sat on the floor by the tub. But as soon as I was finished, she jumped back up. Now she's under her bed again. She ate another slice of Buddig turkey meat for breakfast, so maybe she just doesn't care much for Fancy Feast. I'll try it again tonight, though.

[Catty1]

Mary, just a couple of quotes from Lara's post:

In response to the post about your vet not finding this regarding Puddy's tongue, I just wanted to add that nowhere on the internet could I find this tongue/burning mouth syndrome in connection with cats, just people.

And from a quote she quoted :

For example, “memory impairment due to vitamin B12 deficiency can precede blood symptoms of deficiency by years.

You found Sergeline through the net - used mostly for people, though use of it in dogs and cats is on the net also. But it sounds like this Vitamin B thing isn't even mentioned in cats on the net - so even if Dr Lee was a Google hound, he would have found nothing.

Just a couple of things to bear in mind when you talk to him.

[Medusa]

Mary, just a couple of quotes from Lara's post:



And from a quote she quoted :


You found Sergeline through the net - used mostly for people, though use of it in dogs and cats is on the net also. But it sounds like this Vitamin B thing isn't even mentioned in cats on the net - so even if Dr Lee was a Google hound, he would have found nothing.

Just a couple of things to bear in mind when you talk to him.

When I Googled it, the very first link had to do w/cats and BMS but, admittedly, there wasn't much info. Apparently, a vet had written a newsletter about it, so even if it's rare, some vets do know about it. Dr. Lee is always taking classes, etc. so he should also keep up w/what's online. I don't intend to attack him; that isn't my style. I won't be confrontational. I just want him to be aware of what's out there on the net and that can be found by people astute enough to look for it. He's said to me on more than one occasion "But then, I'm old". He isn't old by any stretch. He's younger than I am. He's still my vet and he's a specialist and I'll always remember the time that he gave up precious weekend time w/his sons home from college to do emergency surgery on Puddy because I was so insistent that the other vet call him for an opinion. Rather than give his opinion, he came in and performed the surgery. Yes, Dr. Lee's the man. No worries.

[Kirsten]

Wow, that's great that she used the litter box!! Sounds like things are indeed improving a bit! I'm also glad to hear that she ate the chicken!

Good luck for your talk with the vet tomorrow!

Kirsten

[Emeraldgreen]

Oh my gosh, what fabulous posts!! I'm so glad that your girl is improving in different ways. Who knows what it is but don't stop!! LOL How great to see that grinning smiley you posted.

In response to the post about your vet not finding this regarding Puddy's tongue, I just wanted to add that nowhere on the internet could I find this tongue/burning mouth syndrome in connection with cats, just people. But it does seem likely that if it is a symptom for people, it could certainly be one for cats too. And because so many of her other symptoms line up with a B deficiency, it makes sense. What I'm wondering though is why the levels of Vitamin B wouldn't show up on bloodwork if they were low. But in any case, from what I've read, it's safe to give and if the body doesn't need it, it can get rid of it. There is an issue with what is water soluable and what isn't and one site said that B12 is and another said it wasn't but your vet should be able to give you a clear answer.

It is so funny how little things can be so exciting but I too was cheering away in my den when I read about the drinking and the litterbox use and lack of howling. It is all such good news. And if I've been able to help, I'm so happy because you guys helped me a millions times more with Tiger and Jimmy etc.. That is the wonderful thing about PT. A place where we can share stuff and bounce ideas of each other and think about each other's pets during our day to day activities. It is neat and I don't know what I would have done without it for the past year, it helped so much.

p.s. I found some more stuff supporting the concept that what is first thought to be dementia may be a vitamin B deficiency instead. This again is from a site with regard to people but I think it's really interesting.

CHRONIC VITAMIN B DEFICIENCY

Vitamin B deficiency can sneak up on you, because it doesn’t have to create serious health problems right away. In fact, medical researchers have discovered that very often there can be no detectable signs according to scientific instrumentation, that you are experiencing a deficiency. For example, “memory impairment due to vitamin B12 deficiency can precede blood symptoms of deficiency by years. Evidence that vitamin B12 deficiency accounts for some cognition deficits in older people comes from a study that revealed abnormal short-term memory in more than two-thirds of clients with pernicious anemia…The researchers recommend that a diagnosis of senile dementia should not be made, even in the absence of anemia, until vitamin B12 status is determined biochemically.” (Hamilton, p. 476) This means that it is possible that certain mental disorders can be directly attributable to vitamin B complex deficiency, and it is easier to first start replenishing stores of vitamin B complex than to begin treating difficult mental illnesses with drugs, therapy or psychological counseling.

Since Puddy has anemia and was acting a bit demented (that sounds so mean-lol) it hopefully could mean that it may not be dementia but a side effect instead. I'm praying that this is the case.
And the highlighted 'blue' part answers my question about the blood work I guess.

Eat more vitamin B-containing foods — oats, barley, wheat bran, avocado, salmon, Brazil nuts and others.

I guess Salmon is the only thing in that list that would be appealing to a cat. I can't remember if it is one of your cats or one of Candace's that doesn't like salmon.

It took a while to create a vitamin B deficiency, so it takes a while to reverse the problem; with severe cases it can take a year or so, with milder cases it can take just a few days.

The above quotes came from this site.