What do you base your political decisions on?

[Edwina's Secretary]

You cannot use your retired military rank to advance a political statement, period. It's a violation of both the UCMJ and the Hatch act. And yes, they can withhold pay and take other punitive actions, and I wish they would. There were various issues in the 2004 campaign with both sides trotting out wounded soldiers, vets, etc. in uniform. Everyone got a quick reminder about the Hatch act, and no further action was taken, as usual.

Had he not used the rank, I almost guarantee Obama's campaign wouldn't have made that mailing.

How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

[Puckstop31]

How sad. I did not realize Americans are required to give up their constitutional rights when they join the military. Rather ironic, isn't it?

So how did those horrid Swift Boaters get away with lying about a fellow soldier? Is that permissable? How are you allowed to express policitical opinions on here? How are former military people allowed to serve in congress or the cabinet?

And...how does McCain get away with it?

This comes down to reading comprehension again...

If I said something like this...

"All Democrats are misguided fools and deserve to be killed.

SFC Brian D B**** USA, Retired"

THAT is a UCMJ violation. If I left out the rank and (ret) part... Its all good. And yes, it is THAT simple.

[Lady's Human]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

[Edwina's Secretary]

But I still don't get my question answered! How does McCain get away with the constant reference to his military service. Can't he lose his pension or something?

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

[Lady's Human]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

[Edwina's Secretary]

McCain has never used his rank to make a political statement. I can refer to my service all I want, but I cannot make a statement using my rank to add emphasis or appear in uniform.

I do not understand the difference between talking about one's service and using rank to add emphasis. If someone uses a photo of him/herself in uniform, how is that different than appearing in uniform? And who is to say whether the rank was used to add emphasis or for some other reason?

Can someone say, I am a retired Captain in the Army and one thing I learned...blah, blah, and I feel that...blah, blah. Is it only if they put all the letters after their name they break the law? Can they criticize congress but not the president? Can they criticize a mayor or the Chief of Police?

I do know this. Living as I do in the Land of Retired Military (and many active as well with Camp Pendleton) next time I see a letter to the editor signed with Ret. Whatever, USMC I will insist the criminal be apprehended!

[Lady's Human]

You can criticize the mayor, Chief of Police, etc.......they are not in your chain of command. Congress and the President ARE in your chain of command.

Liz, if they prosecuted a retired military person for breaking the law by violating the Hatch act, it would be a slam dunk case, as the person is not separated from the military. They are still on the rolls, and still subject to the UCMJ, where applicable. We all carry little blue ID cards, and are subject to recall if the country sees fit to do so.

[Puckstop31]

And I still think it is very sad that your freedom of speech is curtailed!

I can understand how most people would feel this way. But remember, the military is about going into harms way and doing some very dangerous work. When bullets are flying, there is no time to take a vote or have your soldiers opinions heard.

It truly is the only job in the world where a dictatorship WORKS. Sure, in garrison/admin mode stuff, you COULD 'take a poll' or hear the gripes and stuff. But in combat, ONE leader's word is final.

* No, we do not create robots in the Army. We encourage initiative and forward thinking. It is one of the reasons our military is so good at what it does. Even the very lowest level leader is allowed and encouraged to modify the plan, as long as the mission is accomplished. But, when you are given a order, especially in combat (and as long as it is lawful) you carry out that order, NOW.

[Oggyflute]

ES,

I can certainly engage in political discussions, but cannot do so while using my rank to add emphasis to my statements.

I can attend a political rally, anti-war protest, or another political function, but not in uniform.

I can solicit donations for a campaign, but cannot use my military status in those communications.

As stated many times through the career of a soldier, remember, we're a dictatorship defending a democracy. You can think it, but keep your trap shut.

I think you'll find that's pretty much the deal in any democracy. We have this law down under called the "Official Secrets act". Quite a wide ranging and broad piece of work, and I'm still exonerably bound to it twenty years after I 'retired'. It does manage to keep me out of jury duty though apparently.