Unitarian church shootings

[Lady's Human]

The guy could have done the same (or worse) by driivng a vehicle into the church. I don't see how the inanimate object used has anything to do with it.


Curious as to how they link the Yosemite fires to target shooting. I've been shooting hundreds of times, never set anything on fire.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The guy could have done the same (or worse) by driivng a vehicle into the church. I don't see how the inanimate object used has anything to do with it.


Curious as to how they link the Yosemite fires to target shooting. I've been shooting hundreds of times, never set anything on fire.

Oh...that old chestnut about cars. See....cars have a purpose...transportation. Guns have a purpose...Killing. Real simple if you think about it...A by-product of many useful objects can be killing...knives, showers, rope, toys. Guns have only one purpose and one by-product.

But of course, you are, I am sure, more of an authority on what started the fire than those investigating it!

[Lady's Human]

Unlike you, Sara, I wasn't questioning whether or not it was started by target shooting (If someone who does something for a living states what they believe as fact, I tend to believe it, unlike you) I was questioning how they linked it to target shooting. Unlike some who take the MSM at face value, I'd like to see something a little more in depth before I take it as gospel.

The only thing in any of the reports about the yosemite fires I found on the web was a single sentence stating that they had traced the fire to target shooting. In the thousands of rounds I've sent downrange, and the millions of rounds I've been responsible for going downrange, the only fires I've ever seen started were from tracers, which are normally military use only.I've never seen a range fire started by Bubba with his shotgun.

[Suki Wingy]

yeesh that's a little scarey! Every single person I met in my old (Unitarian) church was pretty open and caring. That's pretty much the only thing they had in common, but still.

[jennielynn1970]

I think our culture is just gun obsessed. Heaven forbid you revoke the rights of the people to own as many of them as they want as well. That's just so "un-American". (that was sarcasm)

Too many guns in the hands of too many people who shouldn't hold anything sharper than pencil.

[Puckstop31]

Someday it would be nice if people would stop judging groups of people, or things, by the lowset common denominator. ALL people.

In the United States, we have a God given and 2nd Amendment confirmed right to Keep and Bear Arms. The reason for this is clearly defined by a vast majority of our founders. It is not about hunting, target shooting etc. It is about EVERY human's right to defend themSELVES from tryanny no matter what form it takes. Should this right be removed, we are no longer truly free. All our other rights are simply on 'loan'.

I pray daily that I will never need to use my firearms to protect myself and/or my family. Or worse, protect myself from tyranny of government. But if necessary I can and I WILL.

Further, for a great many people here, we just grew up in a culture where firearms were not 'taboo'. They were just another part of living. ANYthing that is sensationalized can be made to be seen "poorly". For a great many of us, it is just a part of who we are. Part of the American culture. Not that American culture is taught or revered anymore.

"Take away a peoples culture and they are easily persuaded."
Karl Marx

So, to the anti-gun folks out there... There are MANY gun control type laws out there. Why not enforce those, rather than make new and absurd ones. Or, why must you try to impose your will on us? I personally would want nothing of imposing my will on you.

"A people who are willing to give up a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security shall have nor deserve, either."
Benjamin Franklin.

[lady_zana]

In the United States, we have a God given and 2nd Amendment confirmed right to Keep and Bear Arms. The reason for this is clearly defined by a vast majority of our founders. It is not about hunting, target shooting etc. .

But one must consider that the founders of this nation were not envisioning a world like ours. I have no problem with someone owning a gun if they know how to use it, care for it, and keep it away from those who don't. It's these people with military issue weapons that bother me. The founders never meant for us to have machine guns in our houses.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Unlike you, Sara, I wasn't questioning whether or not it was started by target shooting (If someone who does something for a living states what they believe as fact, I tend to believe it, unlike you) I was questioning how they linked it to target shooting. Unlike some who take the MSM at face value, I'd like to see something a little more in depth before I take it as gospel.

The only thing in any of the reports about the yosemite fires I found on the web was a single sentence stating that they had traced the fire to target shooting. In the thousands of rounds I've sent downrange, and the millions of rounds I've been responsible for going downrange, the only fires I've ever seen started were from tracers, which are normally military use only.I've never seen a range fire started by Bubba with his shotgun.

I don't understand your first paragraph. (And I also don't think you are being truthful.) I believe the fire inspectors. You questioned it, I didn't. Perhaps, just perhaps, as I live in California, it is covered more extensively here?

How many rounds have you shot downhill in California, during high fire danger and during an epic drought? I live on the edge of Camp Pendleton and I can tell you there are frequent brush fires there from target practice.

So, if it had never happened to you, you don't believe it. If you have never seen it, it doesn't happen. Got it.

p.s. What is MSM????

[Grace]

p.s. What is MSM????

I do believe that is Main Stream Media.

[K9soul]

I tend to see points to both sides of the gun arguments.. But I think a lot of the problem lies in how much more violent and unstable people seem to be. I know some of it could be a case of we see it more because it's reported more, but it just seems to me there are a lot of people snapping and going on rampages these days compared to when I was younger. We could take squirt guns to school and no one would think anything of it. Now it can have serious repercussions.

This article I just saw tonight doesn't involve a gun but is just as shocking, if not more to me. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3896502

[sparks19]

I tend to see points to both sides of the gun arguments.. But I think a lot of the problem lies in how much more violent and unstable people seem to be. I know some of it could be a case of we see it more because it's reported more, but it just seems to me there are a lot of people snapping and going on rampages these days compared to when I was younger. We could take squirt guns to school and no one would think anything of it. Now it can have serious repercussions.

This article I just saw tonight doesn't involve a gun but is just as shocking, if not more to me. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3896502

OMG

that is just ... disturbing.

What makes KIDS do things like that and over a girl?

I don't care how young they are they are very very sick and I hope they spend the rest of their lives confined.

WOW

[cassiesmom]

I must admit I don't know what the Unitarian Universalist church beliefs are. But I heard on the news that there was a Presbyterian church right next to the one where the shootings took place. The reporter said it was unclear why the shooter specifically went into the UU church. The gun was brought into the church in a guitar case.

Gun violence bothers me for a lot of reasons. I'm a rehab nurse and I've cared for people with head injuries caused by bullets (shot by themselves or others). Trauma care is much better, so more people are surviving and having to deal with the life consequences of brain injury. More than 20 Chicago high school students were killed by shootings during the 2007-08 school year. You should not have to be afraid of being shot at when you go to church. I don't know what the answer is - more police and the Illinois National Guard on the streets? We might be heading toward a police state situation if that were done. More opportunities for youth programs, education and vocational training to get kids off of the streets and out of gangs? I think that would be great. However, our governor has reduced state funding for such programs and Mayor Daley has deferred releasing his proposed budget for the city of Chicago, so I think public monies for these types of services are going to be less available in the future. More drug enforcement? I don't think it is a problem with an easy or quick answer.

[RICHARD]

How many rounds have you shot downhill in California, during high fire danger and during an epic drought? I live on the edge of Camp Pendleton and I can tell you there are frequent brush fires there from target practice.

Camp Pendleton has their own fire department (Marines) and the ranges are in isolated areas that have many firebreaks around the perimeter.

I have been in many areas -Texas Canyon, San Fransiquito Canyon and some areas in the Angeles Nat'l. Forest when shooting was legal. My dad's club used to hold many shooting competitions where there were 20-30 guys shooting thousands of rounds and never ran into any problems with fires.

IN all the years that I have live out here in Cah Lee Fun Nee Ah that is the second time I have heard of a fire being started by a shooter. Usually the AHs get lost and light a FOREST FIRE so they can be seen.

The comps were held in all kinds of conditions and the Forestry Dept never had a problem with them. It is the Bobo who gets a hold of some illegal ammo or makes a stupid move that cause a problem like fires, poaching or shooting themselves or someone else.


Get out and shoot a few thousand rounds like my dad and his kids did here in Southern CA.