Eight Bells (Kentucky Derby horse)

[K9soul]

I'm a racing fan. I always hesitate opening these threads because there are often very uninformed and some downright untrue statements made about racing. A lot of articles in the media are not well informed either. Are there problems going on in the industry? Yes. Just like there are problems going on in anything that deals with animals. There are those who are sleazy and put greed above the animal's welfare, and there are those who consider their animals a part of their family.

If you really want to learn about racing, visit some racing message boards where a lot of people involved with it every day post. Here, for example: http://thoroughbredchampions.com/for....php?board=2.0

Most love their horses and give them all the best they can. Yes there are problems going on. I do not agree with breeding lines that are repeatedly unsound. I do not agree with how early they race and train yearlings. Curlin was not raced until he was 3 and he has shown to be strong, sound and a monster on the race track, an international champion now.

I regularly read this blog, very educational, sometimes humorous and pointing out a lot of problems in the world of horses and breeding practices:

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/


She is very knowledgeable about horses and made a blog entry that I completely agree with regarding Eight Belles and breakdowns. I will quote it here:

For anyone who hasn't heard yet, Eight Belles - the filly entered in this year's Kentucky Derby - placed an impressive second.

Then she broke both ankles, hit the dirt and had to be immediately euthanized.




Yes, another stunningly horrific live-on-camera breakdown. I know everybody is going to want to discuss this. I'll give you my 2 cents worth first and then you can give yours.



I do not think racing is evil or cruel or any worse than most other equestrian disciplines.

However, I feel strongly that yearlings should not be ridden - no matter what the purpose. I don't care if it's a yearling who is going to be a racehorse, a yearling who is going to be a show horse, or a yearling who is going to be your pleasure horse. They are NOT READY to carry weight. I am absolutely convinced that riding them too early contributes to breakdowns in racing, as well as all of the 3 and 4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

That's not on TV though. I almost feel sorry for racing, it takes the lion's share of the badmouthing because it's so public. Someone needs to do a little research project and try to figure out how many of the get of any Big Name AQHA or APHA stud are alive, well, and sound at age 10. That's something I would love to read.

I will go so far as to say I believe riding a horse under 24 months of age should be illegal.


Do I think that Eight Belles' owners/trainer/jockey are greedy bastards who don't care what happened to her? No. I am sure they are miserable right now. I am sure they wanted nothing more for her than a nice retirement after this, raising her babies. However, they - and everybody else involved in racing - need to look at all the breakdowns and ask themselves how they can decrease these fatal events in the future. Boy, would I be impressed if they came out publicly and said they weren't going to ride yearlings anymore...that they were going to do as my friend does who has racehorses in SoCal and break them out as late 2's and race them at 3. If they would come out and say they learned from their mistake - running the crap out of a huge (17 hands, reportedly) baby who wasn't ready - I would totally respect that. I'd love it if they said, we don't care what everybody else does, we're not going to do it anymore.

[cassiesmom]

I'm a racing fan. I always hesitate opening these threads because there are often very uninformed and some downright untrue statements made about racing. A lot of articles in the media are not well informed either. Are there problems going on in the industry? Yes. Just like there are problems going on in anything that deals with animals. There are those who are sleazy and put greed above the animal's welfare, and there are those who consider their animals a part of their family.

If you really want to learn about racing, visit some racing message boards where a lot of people involved with it every day post. Here, for example: http://thoroughbredchampions.com/for....php?board=2.0

Most love their horses and give them all the best they can. Yes there are problems going on. I do not agree with breeding lines that are repeatedly unsound. I do not agree with how early they race and train yearlings. Curlin was not raced until he was 3 and he has shown to be strong, sound and a monster on the race track, an international champion now.

I regularly read this blog, very educational, sometimes humorous and pointing out a lot of problems in the world of horses and breeding practices:

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/


She is very knowledgeable about horses and made a blog entry that I completely agree with regarding Eight Belles and breakdowns. I will quote it here:

K9soul, I'm not very informed about racing at all. It just makes me very sad that this happened. My mom rode horseback when she was a teenager and although I don't enjoy riding, I like to go to "horse country" and see the horses (and sometimes babies) in the fields. I also like what they are doing with riding therapy. I read in the Reader's Digest about a program where they were having prison inmates work with retired horses, doing their feeding, water, muck out and brushing. The horses needed their care and the participants benefited in lots of ways.

[lvpets2002]

Oh I was just so Defastated & Heart Broken.. I could not watch it on TV.. It made me so so Sad.. Poor Baby Eight Bells & May You RIP.. Hope you are with the other Beloved PT Angels at RB..

[lizbud]

I had read an account of the race that said Eight Belles was whipped
repeatedly down the stretch to the finish. I just read this article which
confirmed that with an explaination, of sorts. I don't believe it. They were
pushing her speed, period.


Eight Belles' trainer defends jockey

Posted: Today at 11:18 a.m.

LEXINGTON, Ky. — The trainer of euthanized filly Eight Belles says his jockey handled the horse properly during her second-place finish at the Kentucky Derby.

Trainer Larry Jones told The Associated Press on Monday that if the Derby were run again tomorrow, he'd put jockey Gabriel Saez right back on one of his horses.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez. The group says the horse must have been injured during the race, and Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

But Jones says Saez acted exactly as he should have. He says the jockey started whipping the horse to prevent her from running into the rail.


Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[smokey the elder]

I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)

[lizbud]

I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)

Do you think they will get into the actual details for cause? They could
just say "broken such & such bones "in both ankles & not make any specific
interpretation beyond that.

[RICHARD]

A necropsy could tell if the animal had any 'congenital' defects. Are they really congenital in the classic sense-when they are bred into a horse?

ESPN did a piece today on horse racing and I heard something in the piece (the program was Outside The Lines) that shocked me.

One of the experts said that horse owners have 'plastic' surgery done to horse to make them more presentable to possible purchasers. What I got out of the piece was that people will take a horse that does not fit the criteria of a racer and have whatever defect corrected.

The conversation went in another direction.

If a man marries a woman that has undergone surgery and expects their offspring to inherit some traits from her, he is in for a surprise.

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I think someone posted that all the horses in the race were descendants of one horse.
I think that a cover-up or shushing up a report would cause more problems.

How?

If a necropsy finds out that there is a defect in the ankle or lower leg of EB it would serve as an alarm to all the owners who have horse from this genetic line.

Any horse sold after that -and because lineage is a very special point in the sales and ownership of any competing equine - will be looked at as a risky investment. Will owners look at it as a deriment? Or, will they pooh pooh the news as part of the racing business?

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4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

This is a telling statement. I'd like to believe that most of the animals end up stuck inside a stall for six days, 23 hours a week and ridden by some rich twit that wants to own a horse to keep up with the Riches Next Door.

"My horse was a race horse and I saved it! Now it's safe in a stall where it only runs for a hour a week!"

[Vela]

I had read an account of the race that said Eight Belles was whipped
repeatedly down the stretch to the finish. I just read this article which
confirmed that with an explaination, of sorts. I don't believe it. They were
pushing her speed, period.


Eight Belles' trainer defends jockey

Posted: Today at 11:18 a.m.

LEXINGTON, Ky. — The trainer of euthanized filly Eight Belles says his jockey handled the horse properly during her second-place finish at the Kentucky Derby.

Trainer Larry Jones told The Associated Press on Monday that if the Derby were run again tomorrow, he'd put jockey Gabriel Saez right back on one of his horses.

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez. The group says the horse must have been injured during the race, and Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

But Jones says Saez acted exactly as he should have. He says the jockey started whipping the horse to prevent her from running into the rail.


Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Sorry but it's incorrect. She was hit 4 times with the stick in the entire stretch, once on the outside and three times on the inside. It was not harsh nor merciless whipping. He also waved the whip by her head, without touching her with it, to keep in a straight path rather then veering in to the rail. I just watched the race again and counted it. Not to mention they aren't whipping the crap out of them, there is a leather popper on the end and it's generally not painful. He did not overwhip that horse. The horse was NOT hurt in the race. She ran all the way around the far turn and was pulling up with her ears pricked, there are pictures of it. She was not in distress. She changed leads and when she did her ankle snapped, I saw it on tape. As she went down her other ankle took the weight awkwardly and snapped. It was a freak accident that has never occured in that way before. She was not injured in the race, regardless of what PETA says.

Fan of racing or not a fan of racing, those are the real facts.

I disagree with horses being trained so young for any sport, especialy this one, I think it leads to problems and issues, but the facts of THIS particular case are being exaggerated in general. She was fit for the race, she ran well and placed well. She was not run out of her league. I am horribly saddened by what happened to her, I have been following her quite a while and the stable of horses for years. They are all very devastated by her loss.

Race horses are bred to race, it's what they WANT to do. If they don't want to they are often rehomed, at least by ethical breeders and owners. The stable that owns this filly sends their retired or nonracing horses to new owners for 1 dollar and retain the rights to the horse so it is never in jeopardy of being slaughtered or misused. There is a whole lot more to the sport than people know. Bad things happen, and it SUCKS, but the jockey didn't do anything wrong.


Also, Richard, yes the horses all went back to Native Dancer, but that wasn't the soundness problem, and none of the other horses went down. Hell if you go back far enough all of them came from three sire lines, three arabian stallions. So yes they are all related in that sense. If i go back far enough my morgan and my tennessee walker are related too. But her sire, Unbridled, is notorious for having unsound offspring due to genetics and I wish they would not breed less than sound horses. It does not help the situation at all. I also think they shouldn't be raced before at least 3, preferably 4.

[Alysser]

I was never really against horse racing. I had never seen a problem with it other then the fact that the horses were trained to young. Not matter what ANYONE says, I think it's a bit far as to say it's animal cruelty, I have never believed that. Those horses are treated like royalty an are loved very much by their owners. One thing that gets me is when people say the horses are forced to run. If I have learned anything from my 2 years of horse-back riding lessons I'd have to say there is NO WAY in hell you can get a horse to run if it doesn't want to. Thoroughbreds are bred to run and most of them love what they do. No one makes those horses run, they want to run. Basically, I enjoy watching horse racing over all. Alot of facts on the internet are made up lies. I've learned not to really trust the internet with things like that.

I heard horses carry 60% of their bodies on their front legs. I do not know how true this is but that would leave little to no chance of Eight Bells surviving. It really is a shame, she was such a young, beautiful horse with a lot of potential. But if the 60% thing is true, it would be completely inhumane to keep her alive. I have to say though, all I kept thinking about was Barbaro to. I would really like to see a racehorse survive something like that and be able to walk again.

Rest in Peace, Eight Bells. May you run as free as the wind at the RB.

[RICHARD]

Also, Richard, yes the horses all went back to Native Dancer, but that wasn't the soundness problem, and none of the other horses went down. Hell if you go back far enough all of them came from three sire lines, three arabian stallions. So yes they are all related in that sense. If i go back far enough my morgan and my tennessee walker are related too. But her sire, Unbridled, is notorious for having unsound offspring due to genetics and I wish they would not breed less than sound horses. It does not help the situation at all. I also think they shouldn't be raced before at least 3, preferably 4.

Thanks!

Can I assume that the breeding is done by picking out the best traits of a horse and breeding them to another animal with some other complimentary traits?

I guess what I wanted to know is what is the family tree and how far down EB was removed, or how her lineage differed from the other horses.

-------------

I am a fan of bull riding and rodeo. I really became interested after seeing "Bodacious".

B was a bull that almost ended Tuff Hedeman's life with a skull to skull hit during a bull ride. It crushed the front of his face and he needed some real surgery to rebuild it.

WHen he was retired, his seed was sold at 2k for a container about the size of a pen refill- this was about 12 years ago.

Breeders were buying it, trying to breed another bull with the same kind of attitude. That was interesting to me -

Seeing the cost of BS (bull sperm) and the money spent on trying to 'build' a bull, I can imagine the costs of breeding horses.

Seeing the charts on EB would be fascinating.