Oprah to investigate abuse at puppy mills REAIR May 29

[krazyaboutkatz]

In case any one missed Oprah's show on puppy mills here's a link so you can read more about it, see pictures, and watch a few videos Puppy Mill Story On Oprah. Just click on Lisa Ling On Puppy Mills.

[Ginger's Mom]

I did read your post and to say that most shelter dogs are too weak to run and play is crazy.

You didn't read my post, you looked at it and assumed that it said something it didn't. I said that many people find that their shelter dogs are not physically fit enough to run and play. In just this last week I have spoken with three friends about this very issue. One had to have her dog's back operated on for disc problems two months ago, another is taking her dog to a heart specialist for diagnosis and treatment this week, and the third is taking her dog in have his knees and hips operated on this week. The last dog is assumed to have been a product of a puppy mill or some such facility where he was kept in a cage all of the time. All of them are good dogs and worthy of their homes, but not dogs that can perform "jobs." They are good pets, if you only want a pet, by all means go to a shelter. If you are looking for a dog that can perform a "job" there is nothing wrong with going to a reputable breeder to get a dog that has been bred for that purpose.

Honestly I think we need to start breeding more for companion dogs and less for working dogs.

I honestly don't know what this means. I really do not think you were suggesting that we needed to start breeding more for companion dogs and less for working dogs when there are so many suitable companion dogs at shelters. I am sure you must have had something else in mind rather than suggesting that breed standards should be changed or that new breeds should be developed for a situation (companionship) that there are already too many dogs vying for.

Just a hint, if you don't want me to think something is directed at me, don't start your post by quoting me. It's bound to get my attention.

[3muttsandaboston]

Wow i'm sorry. I really don't mean to offend. I will stop posting in this thread because it is a topic that really really gets to me. Yes i Did Mean we need to tone down the working dogs but not change the breed standard. I will end by saying I love dogs all dogs and hate when they are mistreated. I also wish this thread hadn't veered off the topic of puppymills.

[Twisterdog]

Wow, this degraded in an ugly way.

For what it's worth, here is my opinion:

Puppy mills - indeed, the scum of the earth. There is a special place in hell, I hope, for these "people" who torture and neglect animals solely to make money.

BYB's - some of them are in the exact same league as a puppy mill, only on a smaller scale. They are simply breeding one or two dogs to death, instead of a thousand. There's room in the inner circle of hell for them, too. Some people who want Fluffy to have babies aren't necesarily evil, just ignorant and misinformed. However, they should NOT be breeding. And the only way to stop them from breeding is if everyone stops buying from them.

Reputable breeders - obviously doing a good and responsible job at what they do. SOMEone has to continue making purebred dogs. These are the ONLY folks who should be doing it.

Shelters/rescues - IMO, the far-and-away best choice for 99% of the dog owning population.

In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as puppy mills, BYBs, shelters or rescues. Everyone who wanted a dog would pre-order one from the reputable breeder of his/her choice, and there would exactly the right number of dogs for homes in the world. But, obviously, we are a LONG way from that. So, to start us down the road to that place, we all must NEVER buy from a puppy mill, pet store or BYB and we must ALWAYS adopt whenever possible.

My personal opinion on adopting a rescue/shelter dog vs. buying from a reputable breeder: Neither is a "bad" choice. However ... if you love goldens or bulldogs or schnauzers, great! I happen to love several purebreds, too. But why not adopt one from a shelter or breed rescue as opposed to buying one from a breeder? Unless you are planning on showing or breeding ... why do you have to have a dog from a breeder with papers? I've never understood this.

I currently have four purebred dogs, two with papers. I didn't get any of them from breeders. They were all rescues. I'm not going to breed or show them, so why would I not adopt/rescue one and save its life? In the years I have been rescuing dogs, I have had easily over a hundred purebred dogs who came into my home as rescues and found forever homes. I have worked with thousands more at shelters. And, with the popularity of the internet, petfinder.com and other sites, it is SO easy to find exactly the breed you are looking for in a matter of minutes.

There is NO health guarantee on ANY dog. I bought my boyfriend (now my husband) a purebred English bulldog for his birthday when we were dating. Not something I would have done for myself, but it was important to him. I did a LOT of research on breeders and the breed. I found the best breeder I could find. He was without a doubt a very reputable breeder, who did every possible health, genetic and soundness check on his dogs. Sadly, it didn't matter - Rosie died before her second birthday. I could have very likely found an EBD on petfinder.com that would have lived to be ten years old. To imply that every dog from a reputable breeders is healthy, and every dog from a shelter has issues is simply ridiculous.

[3muttsandaboston]

Wow, this degraded in an ugly way.

For what it's worth, here is my opinion:

Puppy mills - indeed, the scum of the earth. There is a special place in hell, I hope, for these "people" who torture and neglect animals solely to make money.

BYB's - some of them are in the exact same league as a puppy mill, only on a smaller scale. They are simply breeding one or two dogs to death, instead of a thousand. There's room in the inner circle of hell for them, too. Some people who want Fluffy to have babies aren't necesarily evil, just ignorant and misinformed. However, they should NOT be breeding. And the only way to stop them from breeding is if everyone stops buying from them.

Reputable breeders - obviously doing a good and responsible job at what they do. SOMEone has to continue making purebred dogs. These are the ONLY folks who should be doing it.

Shelters/rescues - IMO, the far-and-away best choice for 99% of the dog owning population.

In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as puppy mills, BYBs, shelters or rescues. Everyone who wanted a dog would pre-order one from the reputable breeder of his/her choice, and there would exactly the right number of dogs for homes in the world. But, obviously, we are a LONG way from that. So, to start us down the road to that place, we all must NEVER buy from a puppy mill, pet store or BYB and we must ALWAYS adopt whenever possible.

My personal opinion on adopting a rescue/shelter dog vs. buying from a reputable breeder: Neither is a "bad" choice. However ... if you love goldens or bulldogs or schnauzers, great! I happen to love several purebreds, too. But why not adopt one from a shelter or breed rescue as opposed to buying one from a breeder? Unless you are planning on showing or breeding ... why do you have to have a dog from a breeder with papers? I've never understood this.

I currently have four purebred dogs, two with papers. I didn't get any of them from breeders. They were all rescues. I'm not going to breed or show them, so why would I not adopt/rescue one and save its life? In the years I have been rescuing dogs, I have had easily over a hundred purebred dogs who came into my home as rescues and found forever homes. I have worked with thousands more at shelters. And, with the popularity of the internet, petfinder.com and other sites, it is SO easy to find exactly the breed you are looking for in a matter of minutes.

There is NO health guarantee on ANY dog. I bought my boyfriend (now my husband) a purebred English bulldog for his birthday when we were dating. Not something I would have done for myself, but it was important to him. I did a LOT of research on breeders and the breed. I found the best breeder I could find. He was without a doubt a very reputable breeder, who did every possible health, genetic and soundness check on his dogs. Sadly, it didn't matter - Rosie died before her second birthday. I could have very likely found an EBD on petfinder.com that would have lived to be ten years old. To imply that every dog from a reputable breeders is healthy, and every dog from a shelter has issues is simply ridiculous.

I agree with you 100% on everything you said! I love going to a pound or rescue and meeting dogs of all different shapes and sizes to find the perfect dog for me! My pound has a room or outdoor area you can take them to and play with them and meet them as much as you want.

[Giselle]

I do want to say, however, that there IS a very valid reason for a non-breeder to want a purebred.

If one plans to compete in certain events, such as lure coursing or agility, there are certain venues which only allow purebreds. I'm referring mainly to AKC, here. In my area, we are very lucky in that we have a few fairly active non-AKC venues. However, those non-AKC trials are few and far in between compared to AKC trials, which can be found (literally) within minutes away several times a month. AKC definitely dominates in certain sports and my next dog would surely be a rescued purebred (at least, until something drastic happens with any of the organizations).

[clara4457]

I personally, have no issues with reputable breeders. Someone earlier stated (forgot who) that reputable breeders do genetic testing, don't overbreed, vaccinate, etc. - which is true. One problem is that the average person has no idea where or how to look for a reputable breeder

My issue with breeding is more along the lines of "show dogs". It seems that the breed standards that are winning at dog shows promote health issues. Breeding pugs to make their noses shorter (which causes breathing problems), breeding larger and larger GSDs with the slung back hips, breeding Poms with smaller legs, all contribute to that breeds genetic health issues.

I wish the breed standards were more about health and temperament and less about "looks" IMHO. While reputable breeders really do try to prevent health problems in their lines, I do feel that the breed standards promote the health issues that are prevalent in certain breeds. If breed standards changed in a way that were more about health (e.g. longer noses in some breeds, slightly larger toy breeds, slightly smaller giant breeds) then I would feel more comfortable with breeding in general.

BTW - there have been numerous studies about health issues in shelter/rescue dogs versus private breeder dogs - it is about the same.

I think that as far as the USDA is concerned, the primary focus is the protection of people from animal borne illnesses (e.g. mad cow, salmonella, etc). As long as the puppymills can prove that they do not have any illnesses that can be transmitted to humans, they are doing what is legally required. Remember that dogs and cats are considered livestock, so these breeding facilities only have to conform to those rules and regulations. If you have ever seen a egg farm, you would never eat eggs again - the way these chickens are housed is even more horrific than puppymills. Also, it is a business that puts money into the economy - that is all that our state and federal governments really care about.

These are just my opinions and I do not mean to offend anyone who does breed and show animals.

[Moesha]

The show is going to be reaired tomorrow with an update about changes that viewers made happen.