Oprah to investigate abuse at puppy mills REAIR May 29

[Powerlounger]

Whoa, little girl, take a deep breath.

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

[Pam]

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

You need to go re-read ParNone's remarks and you also need to rein in the attitude.

I am a poodle person. I do not apologize for that. This is a breed that I have owned since 1970. I am also a person who is not happy with what has happened to this breed by mixing it with numerous others and then adding a *poo* on the end. This is being done intentionally by breeders of *designer dogs* and irresponsible people who do not neuter or spay and wind up with these mixtures. Whatever the reason, I do not want to see the day come when there will not be GOOD poodle breeders in the world.

Before Ripley all of my dogs came from breeders, some better than others, as I have come to realize. Ripley is my only rescue. He is a poodle for sure (I don't see anything else in him) and I love him just as much as any of my dogs. I was lucky to find him in a shelter but I would not hesitate to go through a breed rescue should I want to add another poodle to my life.

The goal here is a person's freedom to choose or not. Good breeders are not the problem. How can you not see that?

[Ginger's Mom]

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

You should take a deep breath before you "speak" not after. You may find it helps you to think better.

You misunderstand the difference between people who love animals and people who own animals. People who love animals will go to a reputable breeder to obtain an animal that is bred for certain characteristics and abilities. That is not true of most of the dogs found at shelters (if a reputable breeder had bred the dog, he/she would have taken the dog back). They are looking for a dog that can do certain things without causing stress or possible injury to the dog (agility, hunting, frisbee, and many other activities). They get a dog that can perform that function. In addition to that dog, animal lovers may or may not have dogs/animals from the shelter. Whether they do or do not doesn't matter, what does matter is that they are not going to get a dog from a shelter for this particular purpose. So no shelter dog will be saved. Please note that we are at all times talking about reputable breeders, which has a much higher standard than someone who has two purebred dogs that do not have any known health problems. People who own animals are not the ones going to reputable breeders, people who love animals are.

Unfortunately, in your scenario, no one would be spending the time and money to develop dogs whose bodies and organs can actually perform the activities they were bred to do and that we enjoy doing with them. So rather than contributing money to the local animal welfare agencies we are spending money on knee surgeries, or glucosamine, or heart medicines for our poorly bred dogs.

[Powerlounger]

People who love animals will go to a reputable breeder to obtain an animal that is bred for certain characteristics and abilities. That is not true of most of the dogs found at shelters So no shelter dog will be saved.

What kind of convoluted logic is this?? Are you saying this with a straight face?

You can find any characteristic or ability with a shelter dog. You may have to actually put effort into it, but they are there. And people who disqualify shelter dogs on that basis are morons.

Breeding is a business. Breeders are not in it for the breed. They are in it for the MONEY.

People who go to breeders should know they can find just as good a dog at a shelter. They want a purebred, go to a purebred rescue.

ADOPT. NEVER BUY.

As for my 'attitude', Pam, it's great. Gonna keep it.

[Jessika]

I think "some people" need to start acting like adults. There's such a thing as having different or opposing opinions but we should all be able to be mature and respectful. NOBODY learns from being yelled at. People learn from being EDUCATED. Telling someone they're wrong and being rude about it is only going to turn them away! A soft gentle voice is heard much louder than any array of harsh words.

If anyone wants to speculate if this is about you, feel free to PM me, chances are it's not about you lol

[caseysmom]

I think "some people" need to start acting like adults. There's such a thing as having different or opposing opinions but we should all be able to be mature and respectful. NOBODY learns from being yelled at. People learn from being EDUCATED. Telling someone they're wrong and being rude about it is only going to turn them away!

If anyone wants to speculate if this is about you, feel free to PM me, chances are it's not about you lol

Exactly Jessika being rude only turns people away from your ideas powerlounger, most of the folks here on pettalk are not part of the pet over population problem, you are preaching to the choir as they say. I have learned so much here and not by you, I bought Bubba from a byb 3.5 years ago, would I do that again? ...no because of what I have learned here, stop pointing the finger at people here its ridiculous.

[Ginger's Mom]

I am actually very good at saying things with a straight face. Especially when I have seen so many people find that their pound puppies weren't physically fit enough to run and play. Of course they love their dogs and continue to do whatever is necessary to keep them healthy comfortable and safe. They will continue to go the the shelter and support the shelter, but when looking for a dog for a purpose, they will find someone who knows all of the intricacies of proper breeding. Let us hope that dog breeds don't all tangle into a mash of dogs found at shelters with no identifying breed characteristics or health standards.

Personally, I would much rather get rid of all of the puppy mills, backyard breeders, and unaltered pet/multi-breed dogs out there. But, you go ahead and continue your cry against responsible breeding. Maybe you will get your wish one day, and all of the reputable breeds will cease to exist. I, personally, would be shocked if that put an end (or even made a significant dent in) the need for animal shelters, and yes even euthanasia. But please do go on and continue to enjoy that "attitude" of yours. It seems to be working well.

[3muttsandaboston]

I am actually very good at saying things with a straight face. Especially when I have seen so many people find that their pound puppies weren't physically fit enough to run and play. Of course they love their dogs and continue to do whatever is necessary to keep them healthy comfortable and safe. They will continue to go the the shelter and support the shelter, but when looking for a dog for a purpose, they will find someone who knows all of the intricacies of proper breeding. Let us hope that dog breeds don't all tangle into a mash of dogs found at shelters with no identifying breed characteristics or health standards.

Personally, I would much rather get rid of all of the puppy mills, backyard breeders, and unaltered pet/multi-breed dogs out there. But, you go ahead and continue your cry against responsible breeding. Maybe you will get your wish one day, and all of the reputable breeds will cease to exist. I, personally, would be shocked if that put an end (or even made a significant dent in) the need for animal shelters, and yes even euthanasia. But please do go on and continue to enjoy that "attitude" of yours. It seems to be working well.

Not trying to be rude or anything but are you saying that all shelter dogs are unhealthy? It sounds as though you are trying to stop people from adopting from a shelter... My two aren't they are very healthy and I'm proud of them. I wouldn't trade them for any purebred and I will never ever go to a breeder just because in my heart I know if I do a shelter dog dies. My dog Lucy is very energetic and healthy she runs beside my bike. She is definatly Physically fit enough to run and play.

[Alysser]

What kind of convoluted logic is this?? Are you saying this with a straight face?

You can find any characteristic or ability with a shelter dog. You may have to actually put effort into it, but they are there. And people who disqualify shelter dogs on that basis are morons.

Breeding is a business. Breeders are not in it for the breed. They are in it for the MONEY.

People who go to breeders should know they can find just as good a dog at a shelter. They want a purebred, go to a purebred rescue.

ADOPT. NEVER BUY.

As for my 'attitude', Pam, it's great. Gonna keep it.

Actually, your attitude isn't "great", so maybe you should try being a little nicer.

So everyone who gets a dog from a reputable breeder is a horrible person? Is that what you are trying to say? Everyone who pays top dollar for a well bred, healthy dog is a moron? First of all without breeders(reputable), we wouldn't even have dog breeds, so your logic confuses me, greatly.

Adopting from a shelter is fine but so is getting an animal from a reputable breeder. People who breed dogs responsibly barely make enough money to support themselves then they use all the money to properly breed more dogs. It can't be a very good business unless you are breeding dogs poorly.

By the way, I got my maltese from a breeder, a good one and I am not sorry for it. As for future pets, if I want a certain breed I will go to a good breeder but I will always consider adoption and donate to my local shelter.

[Spiritwind]

Breeding is a business. Breeders are not in it for the breed. They are in it for the MONEY.

Since you are not a breeder, so how can you say why responsible/reputable breeders breed dogs???

Yes, I have breed litters... of quality, happy and healthy Rough and Smooth Collies. I don't breed often, I've had this breed for just over 13yrs now, and I have to be honest this is the breed I love and this is the breed I want to have!! I currently own 6 Collies (2 smooths and 4 roughs) After having Collies for so long, I just don't think other breeds or mixes could compete... with the way I feel about my Collies!...

Yes, I've gotten dogs from shelters before, I've had a couple "mutts" that were great dogs, but responsible breeders are were I choose to go.. because I show my dogs.... not only are my dogs, show dogs, or dogs I do herding with on occasion or other performace activities, they are my pets and my babies!!.... I do not have them to make money off them!.. they are house dogs, they have 17 wooded acres to run on, they are rarely in a "kennel" environment... (unless I am going to be gone a day or two and have a friend coming to take care of them for me)..

Its been almost 2yrs since my last litter, but I am planning a rough and smooth breeding this year. IF responsible breeders make money on their dogs, then I must not be doing it like they do, because I have never made one cent off my dogs!.. All my dogs have their eyes CERF checked, hearts, thyroid.. etc..etc...etc. They are shown in conformation, I also do herding, agility, obedience etc..etc.. to prove my dogs quality for breeding. This is not cheap! It costs a lot of money to do this... Just showing in conformation alone is usually a couple thousand just to finish one dog... IF you are lucky! It can be much more... between entries and traveling costs and handlers costs if you send your dogs out with handlers...

On top of that.. caring for and properly raising a litter of puppies is expensive.. in just food alone a litter of 5 Collie pups can go thru 40lbs+ of food a week... plus all puppies have to have their eyes checked by a certified opthomologist between 5-8wks of age.... vet checks, vax, deworming... some breeders test all puppies for the MDR1 (ivermectin sensitivity) gene prior to placing in new homes, which is $60 per puppy.. or IF Grey Collie Syndrome is common in the family they will check puppies to make sure they are not carriers for that before placing, which is over $100-130 per puppy......

I have helped place "rescue" Collies in loving homes, which costs me money most of the time, for food, deworming etc...

I agree with ParNone... I own and show purebred Collies because of what they were bred to do and their abilities.. they are smart, they are versitle and able to complete so many different tasks... that is why some people choose to go to reputable breeders.... because they want a dog with certain characteristics...

[Emeraldgreen]

Everyone has some good points on this thread and it's obvious that everyone on both sides of this love dogs. I totally understand that if a person wants a particular breed for a breed specific activity that they would acquire a dog from a reputable breeder. As well, a person who just wants to save a dog and have a companion can and should go to a shelter. And for those who want to do both there is this option:

Breed Rescue Groups

I'm sure most everyone on this forum knows all about these groups and it's nothing new but I thought I'd throw it out there.

In posting this, I completely understand that the breed rescue organizations that provide these dogs would not in most cases be able to provide any paperwork or guarantee in any way that could prove that the dog being adopted has good lineage or health so it would not be the suitable choice for someone who is looking for those qualifications.
But it is one more option for people out there who are somewhere in the middle, wanting to rescue but also wanting a specific breed but not necessarily for breed specific activities and are comfortable with the lack of guarantee and background of the dog.

And, hopefully with people adopting from shelters, adopting from breed specific rescues and purchasing dogs from good breeders we can all work to give dogs good homes and keep breeds that people know and love going strong.
Spaying and neutering is the best solution to these over populated shelters!

[Danegirl2208]

Breeding is a business. Breeders are not in it for the breed. They are in it for the MONEY.

.

Are you a breeder? Have you even met a responsible breeder? I am guessing not.

Responsible breeders do NOT breed for money..they are breeding for the betterment of their chosen breed. Infact most breeders do not make a dime off of their breedings, they are lucky to break even. It takes a lot of hard work and money to breed!

Responsible breeders are not the reason there are so many animals in rescues nation wide...backyard breeders sure are though! A responsible breeders dogs never end up in a shelter...why? Because most have a written contract that says that if for whatever reason the dog can not be kept they MUST be returned to them.

the fact is, we need breeders. Why? Simply put, to preserve and improve breeds.

It is ignorent to say that every breeder is out for money, or doesn't care about rescue dogs. Infact, most responsible breeders support rescue and try to help them out any way they can.

please educate yourself before making such bold and inaccurate statements:
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html
http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIP...ndpetshops.php
http://www.dogdazedesigns.com/breeding.htm

[Jaycee]

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

Listen Powerlounger......
I've just come from a whole weekend at the Red Deer Annual Spring Dog Show where I have spent so much time talking with dedicated and highly "reputable" breeders of 3 possible breeds that I have in mind (#1 is the Boston Terrier, #2 the Boxer and #3 the Hungarian Vizsla). Each and every one of them all say they do not profit much from breeding their dogs. They all said they would take their pup back in a heartbeat if things didn't work out in their new home, and that to me, assures me they care only about the pup rather than the money. None of these breeders allow their pups to be released to their prospective owners until at least 10 weeks old - unlike BYB/puppy mills who ship them off to pet stores at 5 weeks. You need to seriously listen to what the majority of people on this thread are telling you - you cannot tar those who choose to buy a purebred with the same brush as those who buy their dogs from ads in papers or over the internet as they are the irresponsible ones. They are the ones who turn a blind eye to what the mama dog has to go through time after time. I would adopt from a shelter and I do check the animal shelter websites, but I would probably adopt from a Boston/Boxer Rescue shelter as they are "my preferred" breed of dog.