Oprah to investigate abuse at puppy mills REAIR May 29

[3muttsandaboston]

Puppy mill guidelines are horrindous. According to them the dogs on oprah were not mistreated...

What it means to be a blue ribbon kennel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA8Y

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

[krazyaboutkatz]

Puppy mill guidelines are horrindous. According to them the dogs on oprah were not mistreated...

What it means to be a blue ribbon kennel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA8Y

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

Thanks for posting these links. I just watched them and it's horrible. Now I know why there are so many dogs living in horrible conditions at the puppymills. It's so sad.

[Seravieve]

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

I feel the same way. I -personally- wouldnt go to a breeder, and I try to steer people to shelters when theyre looking for a new dog.. but I wouldnt look down on someone because they went to a breeder. A reputable breeder anyways.

I too would rather frequent the local shelters. I love my rescue doggies.

[Giselle]

If you are a reputable breeder, it is your duty to help homeless pets of your devoted breed. That's how I see it.

Most of the breeders I consider 'reputable' are very active in breed rescue and regularly foster/rescue. Their heart dogs are often (would you know it?) mutts from the local shelter.

I didn't catch Oprah's show, but did she talk about the ethics of breeding? i.e. backyard breeding ("I think Fido and Fifi should be bred just once for the kids to witness?")

[ParNone]

Always baffles me as to why rescuers and responsible breeders/owners need to be pitted against each other. We’re on the same side. Responsible breeders are trying to better the breeds. They screen potential buyers and require spay/neuter contracts and take back any dog to ensure their dogs don’t end up in rescue. Responsible breeders/owners are not adding to the problem.

I’ve always felt one of the great things about dogs is that they were bred to perform all kinds of different functions. That they can not only be wonderful companions and family, but are capable to work as partners with man in many endeavors, really sets them apart from other animals. That’s why we have seeing eye dogs and police dogs and herding dogs and search and rescue dogs, etc. and my favorite since I have Smooth Collies, Alzheimer Guide Dogs. They’ve tried different breeds but weren’t successful until they tried a Smooth Collie. They needed a breed with a high spatial sense for the most important “Home” command, which was key to the program for when the Alzheimer patient became confused and lost. For whatever reason, that highly desirable trait seems to be apart of the Collie breed. Do we want to stop purebred breeding and lose these types of things?

Rescuing definitely needs to be supported, but we can’t toss aside one of the things that makes dogs special, the different breeds and their functions, by not supporting responsible breeding too. To witness them going extinct would also be very sad indeed.

Par...

[DJFyrewolf36]

IMO breeds of dogs were created to serve a purpose. Responsible breeders make sure that thier lines produce dogs that serve that purpose. If everyone got dogs from a shelter and no one bred, what dogs would be used for hunting, hearding ect. Dogs work, and some are better at some jobs than others.
Adopting from a shelter is a great idea when looking for a companion animal but very rarely can they perform a specialzed job (there are cases where they have though!
And even if you adopt a shelter dog, you aren't saving all of them. Adopting from a shelter takes the same time, concidration and care as picking a breeder. You have to pick a dog that fits your situation. Blindly rescuing a dog could end up with the dog right back in the shelter, and often this is the case when people don't evaluate why they want a dog.
Responsiblity is the issue here, whether it be in breeding or in shelters. Shutting down breeders isn't going to make people any more responsible. Awareness of the issues are.

Edit: I just said basically the same thing you did, par lol.

[lizbud]

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE


I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

I wish more people would become knowledgeable about the USDA.
How the puppy mills are allowed to barely meet minumum requirements
and continue to do" business as usual". The USDA requirements are deeply
flawed & we need to change & update these Federal Laws.

I think the AKC has a moral obligation to speak up for all dogs & lobby
for improved animal regulation. The Breeders who support & promote the
group should want to improve the treatment of animals.

[K9soul]

The logic used in the argument that for every puppy/dog bought, one is killing another, has always amazed me in how far it reaches and is based on assumptions. First it assumes that if the person did not go to a breeder, they would have gone and saved a life from the shelter, which is not necessarily true. Some would rather have a dog whose background they know and who has been bred specifically to a purpose to fit their lifestyle best, and would forgo getting a dog at all if they could not pursue that course.

You could really make reaching assumptions and accusations like that all day long about a great many things, i.e., because I adopted my dogs when they were cute puppies and highly adoptable, I condemned older, less wanted dogs to die. You could even carry it further and further.

Anyone who decides they don't wish to own a dog at all is killing a dog in a shelter.

Anyone who decides they prefer cats or other pet types are killing a dog in a shelter.

Anyone who only rescues one dog when they have the financial ability to take more is killing a dog.

If one goes to a breed rescue or no kill shelter, they are killing a dog in a high kill shelter.

The crux of the problem is not who adopts what and where, but irresponsible breedings: Those who dump litter after litter of unwanted dogs simply because they don't care to spay/neuter their dog. Puppy mills that "farm" dogs for pet shops with no care at all to their conditions, temperament, and proper care, they pour hundreds and thousands of dogs into picture, many with a myriad of health and temperament problems that land them in shelters and often on the euthanasia table. It is those people responsible for all the lives lost and dogs languishing in shelters. It is to them you could truthfully say "you are responsible for the suffering and deaths of dogs in shelters."

[lizbud]

I found a GMA "The Problem With Puppy Mills" on ABC website. It's covers
the same tour by Lisa Ling.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=4598865

[DJFyrewolf36]

Just another point, I know of a very good Doberman breeder who donates every penny they make after the vet checks on their dogs to the local shelter and they donate quite a bit to breed rescues and shelters. They don't make a living on breeding, if anything they lose money because they never charge for adopting out a dog as a companion if they test positive for any medical problems. They also do an interview and a home inspection of each canidate for adoption. My dad got a companion doberman from this breeder and not only did the breeder pay for his neuter and initial vet check up he covered any recuring costs for the dogs medical issues. This breeder does this for every dog. Im sure they aren't the only breeder that goes through this much for the well being of their dogs, at least I hope not .
To me, that doesn't sound like a person who is just in it for the money.

[krazyaboutkatz]

In case any one missed Oprah's show on puppy mills here's a link so you can read more about it, see pictures, and watch a few videos Puppy Mill Story On Oprah. Just click on Lisa Ling On Puppy Mills.

[Ginger's Mom]

I did read your post and to say that most shelter dogs are too weak to run and play is crazy.

You didn't read my post, you looked at it and assumed that it said something it didn't. I said that many people find that their shelter dogs are not physically fit enough to run and play. In just this last week I have spoken with three friends about this very issue. One had to have her dog's back operated on for disc problems two months ago, another is taking her dog to a heart specialist for diagnosis and treatment this week, and the third is taking her dog in have his knees and hips operated on this week. The last dog is assumed to have been a product of a puppy mill or some such facility where he was kept in a cage all of the time. All of them are good dogs and worthy of their homes, but not dogs that can perform "jobs." They are good pets, if you only want a pet, by all means go to a shelter. If you are looking for a dog that can perform a "job" there is nothing wrong with going to a reputable breeder to get a dog that has been bred for that purpose.

Honestly I think we need to start breeding more for companion dogs and less for working dogs.

I honestly don't know what this means. I really do not think you were suggesting that we needed to start breeding more for companion dogs and less for working dogs when there are so many suitable companion dogs at shelters. I am sure you must have had something else in mind rather than suggesting that breed standards should be changed or that new breeds should be developed for a situation (companionship) that there are already too many dogs vying for.

Just a hint, if you don't want me to think something is directed at me, don't start your post by quoting me. It's bound to get my attention.

[3muttsandaboston]

Wow i'm sorry. I really don't mean to offend. I will stop posting in this thread because it is a topic that really really gets to me. Yes i Did Mean we need to tone down the working dogs but not change the breed standard. I will end by saying I love dogs all dogs and hate when they are mistreated. I also wish this thread hadn't veered off the topic of puppymills.

[Twisterdog]

Wow, this degraded in an ugly way.

For what it's worth, here is my opinion:

Puppy mills - indeed, the scum of the earth. There is a special place in hell, I hope, for these "people" who torture and neglect animals solely to make money.

BYB's - some of them are in the exact same league as a puppy mill, only on a smaller scale. They are simply breeding one or two dogs to death, instead of a thousand. There's room in the inner circle of hell for them, too. Some people who want Fluffy to have babies aren't necesarily evil, just ignorant and misinformed. However, they should NOT be breeding. And the only way to stop them from breeding is if everyone stops buying from them.

Reputable breeders - obviously doing a good and responsible job at what they do. SOMEone has to continue making purebred dogs. These are the ONLY folks who should be doing it.

Shelters/rescues - IMO, the far-and-away best choice for 99% of the dog owning population.

In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as puppy mills, BYBs, shelters or rescues. Everyone who wanted a dog would pre-order one from the reputable breeder of his/her choice, and there would exactly the right number of dogs for homes in the world. But, obviously, we are a LONG way from that. So, to start us down the road to that place, we all must NEVER buy from a puppy mill, pet store or BYB and we must ALWAYS adopt whenever possible.

My personal opinion on adopting a rescue/shelter dog vs. buying from a reputable breeder: Neither is a "bad" choice. However ... if you love goldens or bulldogs or schnauzers, great! I happen to love several purebreds, too. But why not adopt one from a shelter or breed rescue as opposed to buying one from a breeder? Unless you are planning on showing or breeding ... why do you have to have a dog from a breeder with papers? I've never understood this.

I currently have four purebred dogs, two with papers. I didn't get any of them from breeders. They were all rescues. I'm not going to breed or show them, so why would I not adopt/rescue one and save its life? In the years I have been rescuing dogs, I have had easily over a hundred purebred dogs who came into my home as rescues and found forever homes. I have worked with thousands more at shelters. And, with the popularity of the internet, petfinder.com and other sites, it is SO easy to find exactly the breed you are looking for in a matter of minutes.

There is NO health guarantee on ANY dog. I bought my boyfriend (now my husband) a purebred English bulldog for his birthday when we were dating. Not something I would have done for myself, but it was important to him. I did a LOT of research on breeders and the breed. I found the best breeder I could find. He was without a doubt a very reputable breeder, who did every possible health, genetic and soundness check on his dogs. Sadly, it didn't matter - Rosie died before her second birthday. I could have very likely found an EBD on petfinder.com that would have lived to be ten years old. To imply that every dog from a reputable breeders is healthy, and every dog from a shelter has issues is simply ridiculous.