Oprah to investigate abuse at puppy mills REAIR May 29

[buttercup132]

Many years ago, on this site, I caused a huge ruckus with a post asking why would someone go anywhere other than a shelter to get an animal. I never could understand the logic of going to a breeder or a pet store. I was skewered. By so-called animal lovers. But I feel, and very strongly, you want an animal, go to a shelter. Save a life. People don't like to be told that. Let's see how they feel about these puppy mills. Which, no doubt, many on this board have knowingly or unknowingly purchased from. And they will rationalize their purchase with the most imbecilic logic. So, I'm curious to see how they will handle this show.

I doubt they were saying go buy a puppy mill dog or pet store dog. Yes alot of people on here are pro rescue but they are also pro good breeding, there's a difference between good and bad breeding. What if you want a certain breed and that almost never ends up in a shelter? What if there are no breed rescues near you? What if they don't adopt out to people who live in apartments,no fence,kids, cats etc ?
When it's a common breed like a lab or something then sure I don't see a point really in not getting one from the pound unless you want a sport dog or show dog.

As for the show I missed it too, I'm hoping to find it on youtube or something.

[Powerlounger]

You know, I really don't care what other people think at this point. These are the facts: Go to a breeder or go to a pet store. That very act sentences another animal to death. Do you people recognize that that IS A FACT?
If you don't like that fact, well isn't that just too bad.

If you saw all those poor innocents being euthanized on Oprah and still want to go to a breeder for a dog, reputable or not, I have nothing to say to you.

Flame away.

[buttercup132]

Well here's what happens when there are no good breeders.
I found this on another forum I'm on but it can be used for any purebred.
Without good breeders there would be no keeping the good lines no keeping up with the breed standard.

Just a Pet by Jenny Peacocke

This is for those of you who think that breeders such as myself are too difficult, too elitist', too hard and expensive to get a puppy from because all you want is JUST A PET!

Why do you turn JUST A PET into a negative? Why do you think that JUST A PET is less than a show dog or [an obedience dog or agility dog] Why do you think that you are settling for second (or third or worse) best?

And those people reading this who have decided that they want a [Crested as] JUST A PET! Why do you want a [Crested]? Because of it's temperament? Because of it's looks? Because of it's energy? It's joy in life? Or one or some of many other wonderful [Crested] traits?

How do you think we keep these things in our breed? Simple! It's by careful, selective, planned breeding to always try and produce the best possible so that any JUST A PET we put in homes can give those characteristics that are so much a [Crested]. It costs a caring breeder just as much to produce JUST A PET as to produce a show or [therapy dog]. They a re usually the same litter and usually could be the same pup!!

I would never breed a litter to simply produce pets for the pet market. This is puppy milling. This is also MUCH cheaper. You do not need to work hard at proving your dogs abilities. You do not need to check on health and temperament. You do not need to match up the BEST stud for the bitch you have. The first male [Crested] you find will do (easier if he lives at your place ... and cheaper).

The fact that I would never breed a litter to simply produce pets for the pet market does not mean that I would not happily sell a whole litter to JUST A PET homes. It does mean that they would be getting the quality [Crested} they deserve as their JUST A PET!

If this is not what you want from your puppy there are plenty of 91breeders' out there who mate (or 91accidentally' allow the mating of) their male ( or their friends male) to their bitch and will happily sell you a puppy. Probably even proudly announce that they are registered with whatever controlling kennel club is in your country..... well so can any purebred dog born of purebred parents be. Doesn't mean a thing about health, quality, temperament, ability, etc.

It is up to you to decide whether your JUST A PET should be considered by you and others as THE BEST' or whether you go out with the idea that y our dog is second best to the competing' ones.

To me JUST A PET is the most special dog there is!

[Powerlounger]

So, if I go to a 'reputable' breeder, will that save the life of an innocent at the pound???

Hmmm. let me think now...hold on, that might be a difficult one. Let's try and wrap our minds around that, shall we??

[Ginger's Mom]

You know, I really don't care what other people think at this point. These are the facts: Go to a breeder or go to a pet store. That very act sentences another animal to death. Do you people recognize that that IS A FACT?
If you don't like that fact, well isn't that just too bad.

If you saw all those poor innocents being euthanized on Oprah and still want to go to a breeder for a dog, reputable or not, I have nothing to say to you.

Flame away.

Whoa, little girl, take a deep breath. People buying dogs from breeders that are interested in the health and development of their favored breeds of dog are NOT responsible for pet over population. Irresponsible pet owners who don't get their dogs altered, backyard breeders, and puppy mills are. Even if everyone on here were to get a dog from a shelter every single year, it wouldn't make a dent compared to the dogs that are being irresponsibly bred, either intentionally or unintentionally. Now, I believe your intentions are good, but telling people who are responsible pet owners that they are killing dogs by buying from a reputable breeder is not going to have the effect you want. You need to change your tactics to get people involved in more active regulation of all animal breeders.

[lizbud]

Whoa, little girl, take a deep breath. People buying dogs from breeders that are interested in the health and development of their favored breeds of dog are NOT responsible for pet over population. Irresponsible pet owners who don't get their dogs altered, backyard breeders, and puppy mills are. Even if everyone on here were to get a dog from a shelter every single year, it wouldn't make a dent compared to the dogs that are being irresponsibly bred, either intentionally or unintentionally. Now, I believe your intentions are good, but telling people who are responsible pet owners that they are killing dogs by buying from a reputable breeder is not going to have the effect you want. You need to change your tactics to get people involved in more active regulation of all animal breeders.

Amen to that.

[krazyaboutkatz]

I watched Oprah's show last night and I thought that it was very well done.It sure gave me LES though. I thought that puppymills had to pass certain inspection codes or they would be put out of business. The one's that I've seen on Animal Planet were always shut down due to their horrible conditions. I sure wish that they'd all become illegal.

Hopefully with Oprah's large following, she'll be able to reach a lot people and change their minds about where they go to adopt their future dogs. I know that in the area where I live, there are no pet stores that sell dogs. There are a few petstores that hold dog rescue adoptions though which is much different. The same goes for cats.

When I was much younger I remember going to the mall and going to the petstore and looking at all of the cute puppies. Little did I know that they came from puppymills. I didn't even know what a puppymill was back then. I hope that children can be educated about this so we can hopefully change things for the better.

I was also glad that Oprah said that buying puppies off of the internet is very bad too. My brother and SIL bought their puppy off of the internet. Even though the breeder was listed as being local, he flew the puppies in from another state. They adopted a Puggle and she became very sick after just a few days with severe kennel cough. My brother tried to talk to the breeder and he didn't even care and he hung up on my brother. He was able to stop payment on the check but they still lost their down payment and had to spend a lot of money on vet bills. Even their vet was horrifed to know that they bought their puppy off of the internet. He said that she most likely came from a puppymill. She recovered and is now doing well. I sure hope that they learned there lesson and that they'll adopt from a shelter or rescue group in the future. The sad thing is that most of their neighbors have also bought their dogs through the internet and even my SIL's sister did this.

[Falconara]

From what I can tell I am with Ginger's Mom - the problem I see with it is people going where Powerlounger just did. That's the extreme in the other direction that I just do *not* agree with. Especially considering many responsable breeders are also active in rescue.

~Cate

[buttercup132]

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

Reputable breeders barley breed as it is. Maybe 1-2 litters a year if that. That's why they have such long waiting list.

IMO breeds of dogs were created to serve a purpose. Responsible breeders make sure that thier lines produce dogs that serve that purpose. If everyone got dogs from a shelter and no one bred, what dogs would be used for hunting, hearding ect. Dogs work, and some are better at some jobs than others.

I agree, and if you say you can get a lab or collie from the pound sure but most likley they aren't going to have great breeding lines so they won't have the same hunting or herding instincts as dog bred from working lines.

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

That is wrong though. Some people don't want the same dogs, some people want working dogs, some people want show dogs. Reputable breeders don't have a fatter wallet they don't make money off of their puppies if anything they loose money. BYB make the money off their puppies.
I'm pretty sure I have also heard numerous times of shelters that milk people for money.

You may have to actually put effort into it, but they are there.

And you think there is no effort and searching endlessly picking through the ton of byb to find the good one. You think it takes no effort to research this breeder ask other breeders about them takes no effort?

They want a purebred, go to a purebred rescue.

Like I said before, what if they don't adopt out of state/country?
What if you dont have a rescue near you?
What if they dont adopt out to people in apartment,with kids,cats etc?

Ummm can someone say PETA wanna be?

[3muttsandaboston]

Puppy mill guidelines are horrindous. According to them the dogs on oprah were not mistreated...

What it means to be a blue ribbon kennel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA8Y

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

[krazyaboutkatz]

Puppy mill guidelines are horrindous. According to them the dogs on oprah were not mistreated...

What it means to be a blue ribbon kennel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA8Y

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

Thanks for posting these links. I just watched them and it's horrible. Now I know why there are so many dogs living in horrible conditions at the puppymills. It's so sad.

[Seravieve]

Also I do not condemn anyone for going to a reputable breeder. I wouldn't go to any breeder for a dog though...I will always go to my local high kill shelter. I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

I feel the same way. I -personally- wouldnt go to a breeder, and I try to steer people to shelters when theyre looking for a new dog.. but I wouldnt look down on someone because they went to a breeder. A reputable breeder anyways.

I too would rather frequent the local shelters. I love my rescue doggies.

[lizbud]

Usda's puppymill guidelines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4r-FcXAXcE


I feel horribly for all the millions of dogs who are euthanized in shelters and until this problem is solved I think all breeders reputable or not should cut back on their breeding...

I wish more people would become knowledgeable about the USDA.
How the puppy mills are allowed to barely meet minumum requirements
and continue to do" business as usual". The USDA requirements are deeply
flawed & we need to change & update these Federal Laws.

I think the AKC has a moral obligation to speak up for all dogs & lobby
for improved animal regulation. The Breeders who support & promote the
group should want to improve the treatment of animals.

[Powerlounger]

Whoa, little girl, take a deep breath.

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

[Pam]

Firstly, I am stating a simple fact. Breeders provide dogs. So do shelters. People want dogs. And they have that choice as to where to go to get a dog. Go to that breeder, a dog in a shelter dies. But some breeder has a fatter wallet. Deal with it.

Yup, taking that deep breath now, big mama.

You need to go re-read ParNone's remarks and you also need to rein in the attitude.

I am a poodle person. I do not apologize for that. This is a breed that I have owned since 1970. I am also a person who is not happy with what has happened to this breed by mixing it with numerous others and then adding a *poo* on the end. This is being done intentionally by breeders of *designer dogs* and irresponsible people who do not neuter or spay and wind up with these mixtures. Whatever the reason, I do not want to see the day come when there will not be GOOD poodle breeders in the world.

Before Ripley all of my dogs came from breeders, some better than others, as I have come to realize. Ripley is my only rescue. He is a poodle for sure (I don't see anything else in him) and I love him just as much as any of my dogs. I was lucky to find him in a shelter but I would not hesitate to go through a breed rescue should I want to add another poodle to my life.

The goal here is a person's freedom to choose or not. Good breeders are not the problem. How can you not see that?