17 Kids!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Last I checked we had freedom to do as we please here in this country and that includes having large families if we want.

Except get married and/or raise a family if you are gay.

If this family would be black or hispanic...would it make as good a television show? Or would the response be..."why do those people breed so?" I hear that about families a lot smaller than 17!

Once upon a time large families were important. You had high infant mortality, needed more hands for the farm, needed the kids to support you in your old age.

Now a family this big is a drain on the planet and society.

And I am free to find it disgusting!

[jackie]

Except get married and/or raise a family if you are gay.

If this family would be black or hispanic...would it make as good a television show? Or would the response be..."why do those people breed so?" I hear that about families a lot smaller than 17!

The truthfulness of that made me LOL! I could just picture someone tut tut tutting about "the immigrants who pump out babies to get more welfare".

[popcornbird]

I don't see why anyone has a problem with them having 17 children. I watched their video interviews, and honestly, I feel they are a beautiful family, with well-behaved, and very responsible children. If they're happy with it, and are taking care of their children, well, then what's your problem??? The parents taking care of that many children, the kids working together as a team...running such a large household successfully, I do think that's admirable.

Besides, no one has the right to condemn a husband and wife for having as many children as they want. Most people want 2 or 3 or 4, and that's perfectly fine, but if someone wants 10 or 12 or 20, if they're responsible and take care of them, and all of those children are well-fed, cared for, loved, then it really is no one's business to condemn them. Did they tell you to have 17 kids? No. Are they your 'kids'? No. Then really, what is everyone's problem?

And Catty, about homeschooled kids lacking discipline, you are completely wrong. In fact, it is usually the other way around, though I do not like to generalize and know there are good and bad kids both in public school, and 'home school'. My brother and I were homeschooled for the majority of our school years, and I grew up knowing many homeschooled kids. We used to go on field trips together, had picnics together, did projects together, and to be honest, it was truly a wonderful experience. I wouldn't trade my past for a chance to attend public school for those years for a million dollars. I had my parents' love at home. I got daily trips to the park for play time and exercise. I got to learn 'fun' things along with school things. I got to socialize more with discipline kids, and never got teased or bullied. Most of all, I developed a really close bond with my family, that is still there with me today. Again, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

Would I homeschool my kids? I don't know. It all depends on the situation when I have kids, but I truly admire and appreciate the time and effort my parents took to do it for me, and I appreciate it even more today, after growing up.

[Catty1]

Hi, PCB - I was speaking mostly about the public's perception, and said it the wrong way.

I worked in a store a few years ago, and this man and his son left after coming in for a while.

My boss's mom (family business) asked me if I knew how to tell kids were home-schooled. I said how?

She said they were undisciplined.

Over the years, I came to know this family, and their adopted son was ADHD. After every natural method in the world, and biofeedback, they finally tried Ritalin. It worked like a charm! And he never was homeschooled.

However - with what my boss's mom said, obviously homeschooling doesn't have a good reputation "out there". I hope that has changed over the past few years.

[dukedogsmom]

"The Duggars do annoy me more than other quiver full families. Probably because they are pimping their lifestyle on TV for money and publicity. It bugs me. I admit it fully. Especially when you throw in their tax-exempt status. (I really do need to start worshiping Mighty Mouse and form my own home-based church so I too, can enjoy this little benefit) It just sickens me. They pimp themselves to a world that they don’t even approve of. How much more hypocritical can someone get?

I don’t have a problem with the stereotypical gender roles that they adhere to.** I don’t even have a problem with the Little House on the Prairie wardrobe. I have a problem with a group of hypocrites who are pimping themselves on national TV…not only for the money because it is individual people’s choice to watch the show or not, and if people don’t want to watch, then they wouldn’t be on, but also the whole political aspirations of Jim Bob being furthered by this. So, it’s okay to appeal to the outside world of which they don’t approve, as long as it furthers their crazy aspirations? Either stick to the lifestyle and live it, or admit that they are a bunch of hypocrites. Other quiver full families don’t attempt to mainstream themselves. They know it’s their personal choice, don’t seek public approval, and just continue on.

And I really have a problem with children raising children and taking care of the household, while mom sits on her tush cranking out the next one. I get no impression that Michelle is a hands on mother after those children hit 3mos. old. Once they hit that age she hands them off and starts working on the next one. It’s sick. The human body wasn’t made to handle it either. She’ll be dead by the time she’s 50, and her uterus will be gone long before then. It isn’t healthy, nor something to aspire to."
Taken from here: http://www.cynical-c.com/?p=7433

The point I was making about homeschooling is the mother doesn't do most of it. It's done by one of the siblings. I can't find the article I read earlier but it was quoting Jim Bob about their daily schedule. I pity these kids when they do get old enough to have to go out into the real world (if they're lucky enough to escape.
http://www.visionforum.com/hottopics...wp/duggar2.jpg

Living there would be like being stuck in vacation bible school. They haven't even been given the chance to be their own persons and have their own views of the world. They're all doomed to live the horrible life their great parents have decided for them.

Yeah, they're debt free. That's because of all the handouts. Yeah, it's their business how many kids they want to have. But don't expect TV shows, etc, to pay for them and companies to give them free things. My problem with all this, besides the earth situation, is that they are exploiting themselves to and for the public. That's why I picked that post out. Pretty much sums it up for me.
**I do have a problem with the females roles, though.

[mike001]

Amazing to read all the posts on this family. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with a couple having 17 or more children. It wasn't that long ago that our grandparents were doing the same thing.
I don't understand all the anger. It really is none of anybody's business but their own how they live their lives. They aren't hurting anyone, the children all look healthy, well fed, clean and very polite and respecful. Also very well behaved which is a rarity these days. Being home schooled isn't new, it's been around for years. If I were raising my kids in today's world, I too would home school them.

The family reminds me of "The Sound of Music". I wouldn't want 17 children myelf, but to whoever can handle it, more power to them. To say they are damaging and polluting the world or the earth is ridiculous. The family probably recycles more than your average family who throw pop cans and empty snack packs all over. They don't own dogs that poop all over while owners walk away and leave the mess there. They don't throw coffee cups and water bottles all over the earth like most people do. And you can be sure they don't pollute with cigarettes or liquor bottles.

I don't think they are exploiting the tv and radio shows,it would be the other way around. If something sells, the tv companies want it and are willing to pay for it. The newspapers all want the rights to the story and are willing to pay for it. If the family can make money by agreeing to do shows and interviews I see no harm in it.

I'VE BEEN BOO'D

[dukedogsmom]

To say they are damaging and polluting the world or the earth is ridiculous. The family probably recycles more than your average family who throw pop cans and empty snack packs all over. They don't own dogs that poop all over while owners walk away and leave the mess there. They don't throw coffee cups and water bottles all over the earth like most people do. And you can be sure they don't pollute with cigarettes or liquor bottles.

Guess the 90,000 diapers used don't have anything to do with pollution, then.

[columbine]

Quality of life issues aside, intentionally having 17 kids is irresponsible, given what we know scientifically about human overloading of the planet. But if their religion forbids them to heed scientific evidence, there's not a whole lot anybody can say, so long as they're actually footing the bill for their huge brood (even if it's just by fleecing parishioners, because even that is a sorta-kinda free will... well, maybe...)

Love, Columbine

[mike001]

Does anyone know without a doubt that they are using disposable diapers?

Maybe it has nothing to do with religion, maybe it has to do with love for children.

If we bring religion into it, the Bible states God's own words: Go forth and multiply.

I would hate to put my nose in anybody's business or their bedrooms.

If having so many children is so wrong, why is it right for every Tom, Dick and Harry to breed litter after litter? Dogs and cats take up space, eat, poop, make noise and take up space. We wouldn't chase all dogs and cats off the planet would we?

[Edwina's Secretary]

IBesides, no one has the right to condemn a husband and wife for having as many children as they want.

I disagree PCB. I feel I have the right. I am a citizen of planet earth. That gives me the right to condemn them (not forbid them...)

We are seeing more and more each day how limited are the resources of this planet.

I see nothing admirable in over-breeding...dogs, cats or people.

[Pam]

Except get married and/or raise a family if you are gay.

If this family would be black or hispanic...would it make as good a television show? Or would the response be..."why do those people breed so?" I hear that about families a lot smaller than 17!

Once upon a time large families were important. You had high infant mortality, needed more hands for the farm, needed the kids to support you in your old age.

Now a family this big is a drain on the planet and society.

And I am free to find it disgusting!

Sara you can't be serious. First of all gays get married all the time in this country and are raising families every day. I fail to see any connection, however, with the topic posted.

Regarding the drain on society, it appears from the article posted by Dukedogsmom that the father is handling things quite well on his own with no help from the government or TLC as others thought.

Of course you are free to be disgusted but I don't imagine the Duggers care one little bit.

I am not condoning pumping out a child every year. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to do that. I do, however, have a problem with others who think they have the right to judge others who might want to. How is it harming you and why do you care?

[Lady's Human]

I'm just confused as to what the heck their religion has to do with any of this. I grew up with a classmate who was one of 13 (Catholic), known others who weren't particularly religious but grew up in a family with double digit children, had a co-worker who was atheist and had 9 children, etc. Doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with religion, more of a personal choice of the parents.

[jackie]

I'm just confused as to what the heck their religion has to do with any of this. I grew up with a classmate who was one of 13 (Catholic), known others who weren't particularly religious but grew up in a family with double digit children, had a co-worker who was atheist and had 9 children, etc. Doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with religion, more of a personal choice of the parents.

I was the one who brought up religion because I was curious if they were member of a religion which disapproves of birth control.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sara you can't be serious. First of all gays get married all the time in this country and are raising families every day. I fail to see any connection, however, with the topic posted.

I do, however, have a problem with others who think they have the right to judge others who might want to. How is it harming you and why do you care?

Glad you asked, Pam. The state of Florida, for example, does not allow gays to adopt children. There are only what, one or two states that allow them to marry? You stated

Last I checked we had freedom to do as we please here in this country and that includes having large families if we want.

Simply not true. If the state can regulate whether a gay couple can adopt a child...how can you say we are free to do whatever we want in regard to family structure?

Yes, I am harmed and yes I care. Unless this family does not produce any waste and does not consume any energy and does in any way contribute to the use of natural resources and does not use public roads nor fuel in their four vehicles (including a 20 person van ) ...in which case I am not harmed.

Meanwhile I am paying taxes to dispose of their waste and provide them with public roads, water, etc. They do not pay more because of the size of their family.

I care because, although I do not have children, I have nieces and I have step-children and a step-grandchild. And I want them to be able to live in a world with clean water. And adequate food. And natural resources.

And no, I suppose the Duggars don't care about my opinion. As I don't care about the Duggars opinion of me.

But I do care about the state of the planet that will be inherited by the 289 grandchildren (if each of the 17 children has 17 children) and 4,913 great-granchildren (if each of those grandchildren has 17 children) and 83,521 great-great grandchildren and 1,419,857 great-great-great grandchildren.

[Pam]

Glad you asked, Pam. The state of Florida, for example, does not allow gays to adopt children. There are only what, one or two states that allow them to marry?

Yes, and people are free to actually move from state to state and do it often for many reasons. I would imagine that to a gay person this might be a good reason to move. I repeat again that I do not see the connection at all between that topic and the original idea behind this thread.

I suppose you might also think that, in keeping with the explosive population, sterilizing people based on their family income might be a good idea. After all, a poor family cannot contribute much at all to the planet but instead just takes. Where I have heard the term *unproductive eaters* before? I shudder to think where your attitude could take us.

Yes, you pay taxes and so do I. Your tax dollars are no different than mine yet you take such offense. I think your problem with this family goes deeper than just the size of their family.