110 year sentence (or 10 for good behavior)

[lady_zana]

Take it easy LH, she is obviously one of those people who don't know who has given her the right to free speech and to be able to burn the flag.
There is a country full of them, and there always will be.
Ingrates is the word that is applicable to them.
Wom

Of all the posts on this board, this is the most offensive one...IMO.

You don't know her; don't call her an ingrate.

Who gave her the right to free speech and the ability to burn the flag? The Patriots.....who went to war over having to pay extra taxes. France had a revolution because the people were starving. England had a revolution because their people were starving and out of work. America had a revolution so they wouldn't have to be taxed.

The military doesn't give the right free speech and they aren't the only ones who protect it. The people who USE it also protect it....and she's using to it to voice her opinions and she has this right like everyone else on this board.

"America - love it or leave it." - One of the most Un-American ideas in my opinion. It should be "America - love it or work to change it." We have that right and are very special for it.

Being anti-military might be offending to you. It's her right to be anti-military like it is mine. It's your right to join the military if you want. However, know it is not ONLY military who defends our rights. The peacemakers do as well.

[wombat2u2004]

Of all the posts on this board, this is the most offensive one...IMO.

You don't know her; don't call her an ingrate.

Who gave her the right to free speech and the ability to burn the flag? The Patriots.....who went to war over having to pay extra taxes. France had a revolution because the people were starving. England had a revolution because their people were starving and out of work. America had a revolution so they wouldn't have to be taxed.

The military doesn't give the right free speech and they aren't the only ones who protect it. The people who USE it also protect it....and she's using to it to voice her opinions and she has this right like everyone else on this board.

"America - love it or leave it." - One of the most Un-American ideas in my opinion. It should be "America - love it or work to change it." We have that right and are very special for it.

Being anti-military might be offending to you. It's her right to be anti-military like it is mine. It's your right to join the military if you want. However, know it is not ONLY military who defends our rights. The peacemakers do as well.

A Lady Zana......how could I ingnore this post.
Ingrate = Ungrateful; an ungrateful person. (According to the Westminster dictionary). You think by calling people ingrates is offensive ???? Well, it seems then that the truth may hurt some. But why would someone be offended by being called ungrateful ????? And isn't that just what ID Rescue has indicated here ?????? She has posted her distaste for war and the military....ALL OF IT !!!!!!! How can she not see what the military has done for her in the past ???? And probably in the future ???? Is that not ungrateful ????? Even if it is her opinion ?????? And yours ????
Honey (please excuse the patronising, but I guess it is my right to say whatever I want to), I'm a Vietnam veteran, and I'll tell you exactly what offensive means.....it means being spat at, ridiculed, called a baby killer, and generally shunned by a certain section of society. But I'm not really that offended by what I experienced, simply because I CHOSE to do what I did, just like Lady's Human here did, professional soldiers, doing what WE believe is the right thing for our country. I really don't care what you believe is the right thing, as much as you don't care what I do. But I hold my peace, I don't go bashing anti war activists, in fact in all the time I have been on PT, I have probably never even mentioned war (except for on occasion with Lady's Human when we PM each other about our experiences).
But, you know, I don't really care what ID Rescue said....true....I've been there, and heard that, it just goes in one ear and out of the other for all that it matters to me. But what I do find I'm annoyed about is being told that my post is offensive !!!!! If one takes issue with being called ungrateful because of what they have said about those who ultimately are responsible for her rights and protection, then she deserves to feel offended about that.
And....for the record.....you mention US patriots, the French and English revolutions ????? Ummmmmmmmm.......they ALL actually formed militias, which is certainly akin to an army at the time.....if they never did that, they would have had buckleys chance of winning. So I stand by my statement, that soldiers have given people the right of free speech, and the right to burn the flag, and they try VERY hard to maintain those rights for you.....do not assume that they are just magically available to you....people have fought and died for that privilege you have.

""However, know it is not ONLY military who defends our rights. The peacemakers do as well.""

Really ???? And how long do you think that would be the case without a military ?????

Wom

[lady_zana]

I'm sorry if you are upset, Wom, that I called your post offensive but I feel it was and is.

The peacemakers do support our rights as well as the military. How long would it last without the military? For quite some time. Look at the good works of Martin Luther King, JR. He preached nonviolence and taught his followers not to respond to violence.

I mentioned the revolutions not because of their militias but to point out the reasons we went to war. People believe the American Revolution was fought for freedom such as freedom of speech and religious freedom. It wasn't. It was fought because they didn't want to pay extra taxes to Britain. Is that a good reason to go to war especially when they knew they were moving to a colony which was made to make money for Britain? Probably not. The militia was not fighting for free speech.

I'm sorry that you have been shunned and insulted by many in society. Believe me, I know how horrible that can be. I've seen my friends hurt, wounded, and made into outcasts - not because they were in the military but because they are gay. However, we still believe nonviolence is the best way and will continue to fight our cause through on terms

[sirrahbed]

WOW - both at reading about what these soldiers did and at the anti-soldier comments.

First off - where *I* am coming from....I was born into and grew up in - a military family. My dad served in WWII and in Korea. He retired after 27 years. My only sibling served for 25 years. I married into military, too. Hubby served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf, then retired after 26 years. We have been civilians for ten years now. Of my three now grown children, one went through ROTC in highschool and through college on scholarship (now civilian) Our one daughter is married to military and her hubby served in Iraq. We still live in a military town near an AF base. So, I tend to be patriotic, supportive of the military, yet I am also a civilian who is concerned about the war.

What I wanted to comment on was the perception and observations of "military folks & soldiers".....

I have always felt that the military soldiers and families we have met and lived with throughout the years were intelligent, honorable, dependable and disciplined. I believe the ratio of scum among the military population is way less than average.


I am disgusted to read about this rape and murder - but do not feel the soldier will get off lightly. Probably worse. This is based on individuals that I have known about who committed any sort of crime and had to be tried in our military system. I have NEVER heard of any crime being minimized - we don't want low-life in our military! The military I know does not tolerate bad behavior.

As a whole, we are among the most committed, law-abiding and respectful people I have ever come in contact with. If new neighbors move to our area - I am happy to learn if they are military. Knowing that someone has served in the military is a plus to me. When I see young men and women while I am out shopping or whatever - they are most likely polite, clean and helpful. If my car breaks down, it is quite likely that it will be someone military who stops to help me. Hubby now teaches at the local highschool and his military dependent students tend to be the most educated and behaved of the bunch. Their parents respond if they are called!

Any scum to the civilian world is scum to those within the military as well.

What sort of experiences have you all had that make you see military as scum???

[Sirrahsim]

WOW - both at reading about what these soldiers did and at the anti-soldier comments.

First off - where *I* am coming from....I was born into and grew up in - a military family. My dad served in WWII and in Korea. He retired after 27 years. My only sibling served for 25 years. I married into military, too. Hubby served in Vietnam and the Persian Gulf, then retired after 26 years. We have been civilians for ten years now. Of my three now grown children, one went through ROTC in highschool and through college on scholarship (now civilian) Our one daughter is married to military and her hubby served in Iraq. We still live in a military town near an AF base. So, I tend to be patriotic, supportive of the military, yet I am also a civilian who is concerned about the war.

What I wanted to comment on was the perception and observations of "military folks & soldiers".....

I have always felt that the military soldiers and families we have met and lived with throughout the years were intelligent, honorable, dependable and disciplined. I believe the ratio of scum among the military population is way less than average.

I am disgusted to read about this rape and murder - but do not feel the soldier will get off lightly. Probably worse. This is based on individuals that I have known about who committed any sort of crime and had to be tried in our military system. I have NEVER heard of any crime being minimized - we don't want low-life in our military! The military I know does not tolerate bad behavior.

As a whole, we are among the most committed, law-abiding and respectful people I have ever come in contact with. If new neighbors move to our area - I am happy to learn if they are military. Knowing that someone has served in the military is a plus to me. When I see young men and women while I am out shopping or whatever - they are most likely polite, clean and helpful. If my car breaks down, it is quite likely that it will be someone military who stops to help me. Hubby now teaches at the local highschool and his miltary dependent studenst tend to be the most educated and behaved of the bunch. Their parents respond if they are called!

Any scum to the civilian world is scum to those within the military as well.

What sort of experiences have y'all had that make you see military as scum???

I couldn't have said it better!!

[Alysser]

Unfortunately after many many many stories like this I don't like any soldiers at all. I hate having to watch on the news when they have welcome back parties for soldiers. Since there is no draft, I naturally assume people who willing take part in the army can be classed together. I know not everybody is the same, but its going to take a lot to get me to trust anybody who supports soldiers or was one for this war.

--------

Wow, that's disgusting. I can only imagine what you do when you see a story about a soldier dying. My brother was in this war. You just take one bad apple from the group and assume all are the same? I really feel bad for you, that you don't trust soldiers. I for one, know my brother is not untrustworthy and does not go around raping and murdering people. Surley, he is immature at times, but who isn't? If you can't respect soldiers who defend your country, then WHO do you respect?

I can honestly say I am very offended by that comment. And to anyone else who was I'm sorry.

[sirrahbed]

Has this thread been heavily edited or some posts deleted? ?? The comments that made me see yesterday seem to have disappeared??

well, just as well I guess.

[crow_noir]

Woah now just a dam* minute! I never once stated my hatred of the military or the war in this thread (or my entire existence on this forum as far as i can remember.) Do NOT say i said things that i didn't.

My point in posting this thread is just how sick some individuals can be. How horrible it was what these humans did, these humans who are SUPPOSED to be making PEACE keeping efforts.

This thread had NOTHING to do with my dislike of this war. IF i had wanted to discuss my dislike of the war i would have STARTED or dug up a thread with a title something to the effect of "This War Blows Chunks Of Beer Vomit"

And you don't know me... I have friends and family in the military. I have never once said anything disrespectful to them about their choices. I have even gone to parades for the soldiers. I have shaken their hands, when i was younger I've saluted them. Do NOT put your interpretation of my *actions* down as if they were my own words!

A Lady Zana......how could I ingnore this post.
Ingrate = Ungrateful; an ungrateful person. (According to the Westminster dictionary). You think by calling people ingrates is offensive ???? Well, it seems then that the truth may hurt some. But why would someone be offended by being called ungrateful ????? And isn't that just what Crow has indicated here ?????? She has posted her distaste for war and the military....ALL OF IT !!!!!!! How can she not see what the military has done for her in the past ???? And probably in the future ???? Is that not ungrateful ????? Even if it is her opinion ?????? And yours ????
Honey (please excuse the patronising, but I guess it is my right to say whatever I want to), I'm a Vietnam veteran, and I'll tell you exactly what offensive means.....it means being spat at, ridiculed, called a baby killer, and generally shunned by a certain section of society. But I'm not really that offended by what I experienced, simply because I CHOSE to do what I did, just like Lady's Human here did, professional soldiers, doing what WE believe is the right thing for our country. I really don't care what you believe is the right thing, as much as you don't care what I do. But I hold my peace, I don't go bashing anti war activists, in fact in all the time I have been on PT, I have probably never even mentioned war (except for on occasion with Lady's Human when we PM each other about our experiences).
But, you know, I don't really care what Crow said....true....I've been there, and heard that, it just goes in one ear and out of the other for all that it matters to me. But what I do find I'm annoyed about is being told that my post is offensive !!!!! If one takes issue with being called ungrateful because of what they have said about those who ultimately are responsible for her rights and protection, then she deserves to feel offended about that.
And....for the record.....you mention US patriots, the French and English revolutions ????? Ummmmmmmmm.......they ALL actually formed militias, which is certainly akin to an army at the time.....if they never did that, they would have had buckleys chance of winning. So I stand by my statement, that soldiers have given people the right of free speech, and the right to burn the flag, and they try VERY hard to maintain those rights for you.....do not assume that they are just magically available to you....people have fought and died for that privilege you have.

""However, know it is not ONLY military who defends our rights. The peacemakers do as well.""

Really ???? And how long do you think that would be the case without a military ?????

Wom

[crow_noir]

Please find the post where I called soldiers scum. I can't find it. (And i can honestly say the only thing i've changed on this topic were a couple of spelling errors and the title of this thread to correct the time.)

No sweetie.....you called us all scum!!!!
That is your opinion of me.......I gave you my opinion of you.
Do I know you ???? Nope !!!!
Do you know me ???? Nope.
You called me scum, I'm calling you an ingrate.
Fair enough ??????
Wom

[jackie]

Please find the post where I called soldiers scum. I can't find it. (And i can honestly say the only thing i've changed on this topic were a couple of spelling errors and the title of this thread to correct the time.)

He is confusing you with IRescue. Who did call soldiers scum, then edited it.


IRescue-
You remind me of a little kid throwing a stone, then running and hiding when the other kids start throwing them back. If you had the courage to post such an opinion, why did you edit it, then continue to defend it? I don't understand.

BTW, who's opinion is it that soldiers are defending me? So far as I'm concerned I had many of my rights as a U.S. citizen and a human being denied recently

Can you list the rights that you have been denied lately? Or even one?

[jackie]

Can you list the rights that you have been denied lately? Or even one?

Ahem?

[crow_noir]

I don't want to dig through my memory for i don't want to raise anger or get too off topic in this thread...

First thing that came to my mind is not being allowed to take things on airplanes, into court houses (for crying out loud get lockers!), etc. I don't care if it is for security or not.

The case IR is referring to (I think) is Pagans being denied the right to have ANY of their symbols on military headstones. "Wicca" is an official recognized religion in the U.S. Last year a judge denied a soldier's family the right to have a pentacle (the upright star) placed on his headstone even though the military will technically allow any official religious symbol to be placed on one. OMG that case made me so angry!!! This is supposed to be the land of religious freedom!!! If he was good enough to serve our military and give his life for this country, i think the least this country can do for him is grant him his request in death. This may not affect me personally, but being denied a harmless request like that sends up red flags. I feel indirectly like my rights are being infringed on by this one.

People being hauled away for saying negative things about our president. (Not widely publicized, but earlier on you could find articles here and there of random incidences. Not just celebs getting shunned. I think they finally realized they were pushing it and have lightened up. I haven't read about any recent cases of this happening.) (and I'm not talking about getting hauled away for things like jokes about killing the guy... I'm taking about simple stuff like calling him "King George")

Yeah... that's all i got right now... Like i said though... I don't want to get too angry or off subject.

Can you list the rights that you have been denied lately? Or even one?

[CathyBogart]

Crow, I hadn't heard about the man being denied a pentacle on his headstone - how terribly sad! How infuriating that "mainstream" religions get preferential treatment....

[Lady's Human]

I remember several cases of people being arrested for making threats against the president, (Not just the current president, but the two previous residents of 1600 PA Ave as well) but for making negative comments? Links please, and something substantial.

Rights infringed? The military was enforcing long standing policy, (The military has a reg for everything, up to and including marital relations with your spouse) the case went to court, the court ruled in favor of having other religious symbols in military cemeteries,case closed. It's the Constitutional process, it worked as it is supposed to. Everyone gets their day in court if needed.

[wombat2u2004]

Folks...........
I have offered my sincerest apologies to Crow by PM, to make amends for mistakenly mentioning her name in my posts where I should have been referring to ID Rescue.
(I gotta change my medication.)
SORRY CROW !!!!!!!!
Wom