Anti-smacking law in NZ...

[king2005]

a whip!!!!!!!!!! are you kidding me?!?! holy hell those poor kids! There is such a huge difference from a quick tap on the bottom & a freaken whip!!!

I was dragged in an adult store with the guys... Chad called me so I'd turn around, & he gently hit me with a little whip on the side of my face... My goodness that little thing hurt like heck!! The pain those kids must go through if whipped hard in punishment

How could a parent do that?!?!?!?!

[carole]

Yep it was on the telly last night, what really gobsmacked me it was considered reasonable force to discipline a child with and she walked away from that court a free woman, how wrong is that, if you did that to an adult , you would be up for assault, so you can see why the law needed an overhaul can't you?she is not an isolated case either,alot of islander people in our country, from Tonga and Samoa, really believe in corporal punishment, it is their culture, they will be finding this new law very hard to abide by.

To my knowledge corporal punishment has not been allowed in our schools for sometime now,of course it could not be able to continue under this new law anyhow, i remember getting the strap as a child at school for talking in class too much, man i was so humilated, it was done in front of everyone, and by my favourite teacher too, that hurt even worse than the strap itself.

[king2005]

Carole, thats so horrible, I'm having a really hard time processing it, as to me its so barbaric (sp). Its one of those things you see in movies & don't think about it happening in real life.

If the country is that bad, then I totally agree with this new law, as the madness has to stop!


BUT I will say this. Outside of Canada & the USA (we're closely tied) I will NOT vote one way or the other... i will give my opinion only, heres my reason why.

Who am I to say what other countries should or shouldn't do? I believe in old cultures & if their people want to live there & continue life as is, then leave them alone.. Sure they might do sick things in my opinion, but thats their culture & should be left as is, unless their people cry out for help.. THEN & only then, would I ever consider stepping in.

I hope that made sence.

[sparks19]

Well if the abuse in the country is that bad then something should be done.... but like you said.... passing an anti smacking law is not going to stop the child abusers. there is a big difference between a smack on the butt and abuse IMO. It's just going to stop parents who give the occassional smack for very wrong doings from disciplining their children OR have them arrested when they really don't deserve that. chances are most of the child abusers aren't out in public beating the snot out of their children. that is the major problem I see with this law. it's not going to stop anything except for those who use the smack responsibly. IMO. I say they give Abusers harsher punishments. Guaranteed jail time. I know around here child services basically has to witness the child abuse before anythign is actually done about it and sometimes even when they do they recommend counselling and other crap. PUT THE ABUSERS IN JAIL ... period. and I think abusers (when caught and sent to jail) should be sterilized no more kids for them.

[Suki Wingy]

Well, seeing as we are trying to teach my 3 year old brother NOT to hit/kick/bite, if we smacked him that wouldn't get anywhere! I think that sice there is a high abuse rate a no smacking rule is a step in the right direction.

[carole]

I am sorry I think i have given you all the wrong impression about my country,this is not an isolated case, however it is not a daily occurence either,I imagine child abuse is much the same in the USA,child abuse takes on all forms, from neglect to physical punishment,I do believe however for the size of our population which is four million people, it is far too high, and something needs to be done about it, NZ is a multi-cultural society,there are some cultures who accept corporal punishment as the normal,like alot of the islanders who have emigrated here.

I do think some parents will be treated as criminals,those who believe in a quick smack for wrong doing, and that will be a mistake,the real child abusers will continue despite such a law,they are beyond the law,no law will stop them ,that is for sure.

I am a little worried as to the right of a parent to raise their child as they see fit being taken away from them,I mean what is next ?

[columbine]

In the USA, the emphasis is on liberty. YOUR kids and YOUR wife are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Anybody who tries to interfere with that is a commu - sorry, terrorist (begging your pardon, I'm kinda old).

Of course, if your boyfriend begs to be collared, leashed, and whacked with a rolled-up newspaper, and you're dumb enough to accede, and you get caught, well, it's prison for you, you perv.

Moral of the story: 1) Don't have kids. 2) Don't get married. 3) Don't date.

Love, Columbine (batting 1000 so far!)

[Karen]

In the USA, the emphasis is on liberty. YOUR kids and YOUR wife are YOURS to do with as you see fit.

That is NOT true. Abuse is criminal, here, as it should be. Often, though, an abused person will refuse to press charges, and that makes it difficult to enforce the law, when abuse occurs inside the home and no one talks about it. But a teacher can intervene if they suspect abuse, and Social Service agencies can investigate, etc.

Anybody who tries to interfere with that is a commu - sorry, terrorist (begging your pardon, I'm kinda old).

Of course, if your boyfriend begs to be collared, leashed, and whacked with a rolled-up newspaper, and you're dumb enough to accede, and you get caught, well, it's prison for you, you perv.

Again, not true, unless he agrees to press charges.

Moral of the story: 1) Don't have kids. 2) Don't get married. 3) Don't date.

Love, Columbine (batting 1000 so far!)

[columbine]

That is NOT true. Abuse is criminal, here, as it should be.

Legally - yes! Culturally - no. as you said:

Often, though, an abused person will refuse to press charges, and that makes it difficult to enforce the law, when abuse occurs inside the home and no one talks about it. But a teacher can intervene if they suspect abuse, and Social Service agencies can investigate, etc.

And Heaven help them. One obfuscatory presence in the law enforcement hierarchy can scuttle the whole thing.

Again, not true, unless he agrees to press charges.

Or it violates "prevailing community standards" and some busybody who dislikes you for some unrelated reason decides to infiltrate the event at which you pursue these diversions.

Culture and law are two very different things, and culture often wins out.

[sparks19]

First of all, apparently I am VERY fortunate to have a husband that doesn't see me as his to do as he sees fit. LOL he knows better and he would never do anything to me just out of love and respect if nothing else.

BUT.... it is not just men that abuse. I have heard of plenty of men that suffer spousal abuse from their wives.... but like Karen said.... it often goes unreported.

I can't say that I ever got a feeling that culturally in the US owning your spouse and child is the norm. Especially being the cultural melting pot that we are. I wouldn't say that I own my child... but under the age of 18 I AM responsible for them AND I can face consequences for their mistakes if they are underage. So while that doesn't mean I own them.... I am required to be a parent and provide them with the nessecities of life and can be held liable if they make illegal choices.

[Catlady711]

Sigh.... Will we ever learn.... The more power people give government over us, the more enslaved we become. How is it the governments place to tell people how they should raise their children?

Of course, parents should never abuse their child, but I was raised by parents who belived in "spare the rod, spoil the child." I was physically disciplined when I made mistakes and I rarely made the same one twice. I never really feared my parents because of it and today I am VERY grateful to them for raising me that way. It taught me to be responsible for my own actions and if I messed up, there was a price to pay... Just like the real world.

There are no "time outs" in the real world.

Action=Consequence.... For good or bad.

I agree. My mom raised me with spankings, sometimes including occasional spanking with paint stirrers and wooden spoons, on the hiney only, and the occasional washing my mouth out with soap for mouthing off (btw coast tasts awful!). I never had any marks on me, the soap never made me sick, the pain was temporary but the lessons were permenant, when mom says no, mom MEANS no!

I do not call that child abuse, and I was the one being spanked at the time, but I learned that when someone in authority says something you'd darn well better listen! Mom always let me know she loved me and that she spanked me because I needed to learn what she was trying to teach me for my own good and safety. And many of our relatives and mom's friends commented on how well behaved I was and how well I listened to her in comparison to their own children who they didn't spank.

I wouldn't trade how I was raised for a million years for 'time-outs'. I often now thank my mom for raising me the way she did! And we have been really close even when I was little.

And Puckstop- your comment about the government reminds me of something I once heard....."a government big & powerful enough to give you everything you want, is big & powerful enough to take away everything you have".

[carole]

Catlady i was basically raised similar to you, although i never experienced the soap in the mouth treatment or anything other than a hand,there is a fine line between what we call discipline and child abuse I believe, i still think we can raise our children to be adults without the use of physical punishment, there are other means and ways that are just as effective ,but IMO more dignified, this comes from a parent who has indeed used both methods, i can tell you from experience i much prefer using time out, loss of priviliges etc to spanking any day, IMO spanking never really achieved much except making me feel bad about myself,i think my son learn't far better when i started using alternative methods,now that is just from my own personal experience and valuation.

I am uncertain as to whether teaching a child it is ok for us to hit them when they do wrong, is indeed healthy.

The only thing i remember about being spanked was the humiliation i felt,and of course it did hurt a little, but not near as much as my feelings did, I cannot see that does anyone good really,and people spank for different reasons,some people think it is fine to give a quick sharp smack if your child is in danger, like going to put their hands on the oven ring for example, but would not a sharp NO and taking their hand away learn them just as well, if not more,communication surely is a better, and more effective measure,if the child is too young too understand NO, will it understand your meaning behind your smacking either,anyhow just my thoughts on the subject today.

[lizbud]

IMO. I say they give Abusers harsher punishments. Guaranteed jail time. I know around here child services basically has to witness the child abuse before anythign is actually done about it and sometimes even when they do they recommend counselling and other crap. PUT THE ABUSERS IN JAIL ... period. and I think abusers (when caught and sent to jail) should be sterilized no more kids for them.

I think this Prosecuter & Judge in this recent case, heard you. This jerk
recieved 40 yrs in prison for abuse to his 2 yr old step daughter.Her injuries
revealed beatings over a period of time.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/11258997/detail.html

[sparks19]

I think this Prosecuter & Judge in this recent case, heard you. This jerk
recieved 40 yrs in prison for abuse to his 2 yr old step daughter.Her injuries
revealed beatings over a period of time.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/11258997/detail.html

Well I have been known to be ... Loud lol.

that is terrible. I feel so bad for these kids... especially a little two year old.... and it has been going on over a period of time?! My goodness the child must have been an infant when it started. it's sickening to me and I am glad they are giving out serious penalties for this kind of thing. There is no excuse.

[columbine]

some people think it is fine to give a quick sharp smack if your child is in danger, like going to put their hands on the oven ring for example, but would not a sharp NO and taking their hand away learn them just as well, if not more,communication surely is a better, and more effective measure,if the child is too young too understand NO, will it understand your meaning behind your smacking either,anyhow just my thoughts on the subject today.

If it's a household where yelling isn't commonplace, a child's first reaction to any sudden shout is to FREEZE (and possibly give a wail of their own!) But if there's shouting going on all the time, one more shout isn't going to get their attention at all. And shouting isn't just caused by anger - it's caused by people trying to shout from room to room instead of rounding the corner to ask a question or sending someone downstairs to announce wash-your-hands-for-dinner, yelling over a too-loud TV or stereo, or shouting so a hard-of-hearing family member can hear. But if it's possible to minimize houshold shouting outside of circumstances of danger, "NO!" "STOP!" and "DROP IT!" are amazingly effective!

And this, explained to a spouse as a practical strategy, can help reduce noise-related headaches all around too.

Love, Columbine (when all else fails, make sure to take your B vitamins!)