A Few Questions on Feeding Raw.

[cyber-sibes]

Ths is very timely! I bought two whole chickens yesterday, and cut them up myself. I split the chicken back between my two dogs, just to see how they'd like it. not many minutes later, they were completly gone.

Will a meat & bone diet help for a dog that has plaque? Our new vet suggested I bring Star in for a cleaning - he said she has a broken molar that is building up tarter. The catch is that she would have to go under anesthesia, and because of her age (9), she'd need pre-test blood work, and it's more risky for an older dog. (I can see the $$$$ adding up, too!) i don't want to put her through that unless absolutely necessary. And if they put her under, they may as well pull the tooth rather than have to do this every year.
So I'm wondering if the raw diet would help reduce her plaque problem?

[animal_rescue]

Ths is very timely! I bought two whole chickens yesterday, and cut them up myself. I split the chicken back between my two dogs, just to see how they'd like it. not many minutes later, they were completly gone.

Will a meat & bone diet help for a dog that has plaque? Our new vet suggested I bring Star in for a cleaning - he said she has a broken molar that is building up tarter. The catch is that she would have to go under anesthesia, and because of her age (9), she'd need pre-test blood work, and it's more risky for an older dog. (I can see the $$$$ adding up, too!) i don't want to put her through that unless absolutely necessary. And if they put her under, they may as well pull the tooth rather than have to do this every year.
So I'm wondering if the raw diet would help reduce her plaque problem?

Yes! It was definitely help, they'll have very healthy teeth on a raw diet.

[bckrazy]

Gonzo, before I started him on 100% raw, was given a Greenie almost every day... which is $20+ a month, JUST for Greenies! His teeth still had light plaque, especially the molars where his kibble stuck to after eating. Now, I spend the same amount as I did on Greenies for his WHOLE monthly meal, and he has zero plaque with raw. Like, not a trace of it, and his teeth are very white and not worn at all. He's almost 5, too ^_^

Ok, so I guess the answer is yes, raw bones do help immensely with cleaning teeth. I find that chicken bones help a lot, but because they are smaller and easy to bend and break into small pieces, they aren't as efficient with cleaning teeth. Beef femur & soup bones literally scrub away plaque! However, you have to keep a close eye with these because they are so hard and an overly-vigorous chewer can chip a tooth.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Okay, so do veggies need to be included, too?
Calculations, I say Roxy may weigh about 45.
I read you need to feed 2% of the dogs body weight, from a site from the guy that invented BARF. This is including veggies.
Roxy
14.4 ounces of food
8.64 ounces of RMB
5.76 ounces Vegetable Patty Mix

Lily
1.44 ounces of food
0.864 ounces RMB
0.576 ounces of Vegetable Patty Mix

Source - http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
Ok, but really do I have to add veggies, too, or can I feed mostly meat, and Veggies occasionally?

[IRescue452]

There are quite a few people that are anti-veggie for dogs. The barf diet includes a veggies and the raw usually doesn't. Both are very good diets. If you can't include veggies it will still be ok.

[Kfamr]

Donna,

Some people have had troubles with feeding raw & kibble at the same time because they digest differently. Personally, I have not so far and know many people who have no issue with it.

I feed kibble (TimberWolf Organics) in the morning and raw/barf for dinner.
My three's first meal was a trout filet & pureed carrots/tomatoes/bananas. So far they've only had that and chicken. From serveral sources, I've been told chicken is the best to start with. I'd assume turkey would be about the same.

Another thing I've learned... Your dogs will probably act like they're starving afterwards. If you think they've gotten enought to eat (like mine did their first raw meal) you may want to add some sort of veggie as a filler, and slowly take it away.

I've yet to give them any bones. Tomorrow will be their first raw bones. They will be having chicken legs with tomato/carrot puree.



Roxyluvsme, if you do end up feeding any veggies/fruits, make sure you puree them. They aren't beneficial if given whole.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I wasn't really going to feed many Veggies, since I don't have a blender.. I was wondering with Jess if you dont feed the 10% veggies, do you add more organs?

[wolfsoul]

I wouldn't use a 60/40 meat/organ ratio, myself...Organs are very high in certain things...Liver is high in Vitamin A and can cause Vitamin A toxitity, heart (which is a muscle technically, but anyways) is high in copper and can cause copper poisoning, etc. I would feed more meat or add an RMB to the meal.

[binka_nugget]

Ditto what Jordan said. I'd probably add RMBs or meat instead of more organs.

[.sarah]

I feed prey-model raw, which is as close to wild as you can get. BARF is totally different. It involves grinding, veggies, and lots of supplements. It is usually modeled after Dr. Ian Billinghurst's advice (I DO NOT reccomend his books, there are much better books out there with more accurate information for someone looking to feed prey-model. His reccomendations are all wrong in my opinion. )

Prey-model is so, so easy. Think about what a wolf eats in the wild. They eat whole prey, or nearly whole prey when shared with their pack. They eat the meat, bones, and organs, and shake out the stomach contents (this means minimal or no veggies). They are scavengers and do occassionally eat fruits and berries but unless if it is pureed or pupled (like stomach contents) they don't get any nutrition from it. Their teeth cannot grind grains or break open the cell walls of veggies where all the nutritious cellulose is.

Supplements are pointless in my opinion unless if you are addressing a specific problem. Nova is fed five fish oil pills a day to help with her allergies and joints. Mandy gets two a day for her joints, and Buck and Luka get one as a treat. Dairy is a waste of time and money in my opinion, since dogs are lactose intolerant after 16 weeks of age.

Boney foods should be avoided unless if they are fed with a cut of boneless meat or are still attatched to a larger part of the animal. For example, I would never reccomend chicken wings, necks, or backs on their own, they are too boney. Wings and necks also tend to be easy to choke on for larger dogs. If they are still attatched to the bird they are great, but otherwise I would skip them and spend your money on better cuts.

Watching for sales will make raw even cheaper. If chicken quarters are on sale and you can stock up, then feed chicken quarters for a while. Balance over time is key, so if you feed chicken quarters for two weeks and then feed another meat on sale for two weeks, and then another meat, you will be fine. Dogs don't need day-to-day balance, they need balance over time.

Organs should be about 10% of the diet with liver being 50% of that (5% of the total diet). The percentages for feeding raw are I think what turn a lot of people off. Just guess. Feed a chicken liver a week or cut up another source of liver into chicken liver sizes. Feed less liver if your dog is having loose stool. Feed a variety of different animal livers and other organs if possible.

Feed anything you can get your hands on. Animal protein is animal protein, it is all useful for dogs! Only things I would avoid are bare-nekkid bones (bones with minimal or no meat), and bones from a weight-bearing animal such as cows, buffalo, moose, etc. You have to be careful with these bones, they are so dense and can break or chip teeth. I would avoid beef ribs totally, they are not usually covered in much meat.




For "menus" ... let's see, how about I list everything I feed that I can remember.

Beef brisket - They had some of this yesterday. It was $.93/lb and a one-pound piece took them a while to eat. It is boneless but sort of tough. They loved it!

Beef tongue - Tongue is very rich and can cause the runs if fed in large portions. I feed about 1/4 lb at a time and always feed it with a RMB, never boneless meat, to cut out on the chance of loose stools.

Boneless pork - I normally don't buy boneless but this was on sale at a great price!

Pork ribs - These are always the cheapest ribs and are usually very meaty. The dogs love 'em!

Pork roasts - This is what they had today. They were 8 lb suckers with lots, and I mean LOTS, of meat on them. It comes with skin on.

Pig ears - Mostly use these as treats to keep them busy.

Pig feet and pork necks - These are generally cheap but are very boney so I keep them on hand in case somebody has loose stool. Or I will feed these with organs to off-set the boney-ness (organs are very rich).

Boneless buffalo - Isn't fed often because it is so dern expensive. I have a bunch of coupons though and so I get some each time I go to the grocery store.

Turkey legs - These tend to be very large and meaty. The ones I get at the grocery store are about 1 lb each. The ones I get at the butcher are 2-2.5 lbs each.

Whole chickens - I usually buy whole fryer chickens and cut them in halves or quarters. I split the organs up between the dogs when I feed them.

Chicken quarters - I buy these if they are on sale cheaper than whole chickens (remember whole prey is always better).

Rabbit - I am talking to a supplier right now and will start getting almost all of my meat from her. She sells whole rabbits, with everything intact, unless if I request them otherwise.

Lamb shanks - These go on sale every now and then at Publix and I always stock up since they are usually very expensive. I have about 15 shanks out in my freezer right now. Lamb seems to be Buck's favorite.

Fish - I buy trout the most often because it is cheapest. Salmon is occassional. I tried Tilapia the other day. The Labs loved it but Mandy didn't care for it which is odd for her, because fish is her favorite. My dad catches a lot of snapper and mullet and he will give me whatever he doesn't use.

Organs and muscle meat - Beef liver, beef kidney, beef heart, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, chicken hearts, pork liver, pork kidney, pork fries, all rabbit organs, turkey organs and some others, probably.


I feed more than this, but am having a brain fart




I can't say enough how much the Yahoo! group rawfeeding has been of help to me. They were my lifeline when I first switched the dogs. The knowledge that people there have is really invaluable. Join it!!!

[bckrazy]

Sarah... I understand that Dr. Billinghurst has recently started advocating grinding. I'm talking about his book from several years ago, Give Your Dog A Bone. There is nothing wierd about the book - not even mention of grinding. Just info about raw meaty bones, how much to feed, how often, etc. What is in this book is basically the same as your info in that post, and basically what you feed. =P I do think the new grinding thing is dumb, for sure.

[finn's mom]

I wasn't really going to feed many Veggies, since I don't have a blender..

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece.

[.sarah]

You don't really have to blend them. At least I never have for Finn. I just toss him fruits and veggies whenever I eat them. Which is constantly. If I eat a handful of carrots, he gets one...if I eat anything, he gets a piece.

Since dogs don't have teeth that will break open the cell walls where all of the nutrients are, feeding veggies whole doesn't do much for nutritional benefits. My mom gives them as treats sometimes (makes her feel better lol). No harm, but doesn't do much benefit either.

[Kfamr]

They may be able to digest the carrots/fruits/veggies, but not in a way to benefit them.

The cell walls of plants fruits/veggies are made of cellulose, dogs cannot digest cellulose, thusare unable to get to the nutrients in the fruits/veggies.